Does Everyone Live Forever?

[TulsaDavid]

Being incinerated physically and complete annihilation of soul existence are two separate things.

[JamesGlen]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

Being incinerated physically and complete annihilation of soul existence are two separate things.

In your understanding, you have the unjust being physically resurrected, judged, then put to death(cast into lake of fire- Rev. 20:14) in their physical body, yet their soul suffers torment, (however all that entails) FOREVER without end.

Is this correct? (Making sure I follow your position...)

Q: In your understanding, where is a saint’s, as well as a sinner’s soul, when they are “dead asleep” in the grave awaiting the resurrection? Is it with the “dead asleep” body?

[TulsaDavid]

They are not "put to death". They are cast into the lake of fire. That is the second death. Not even sure when death and hell give up the dead to judgment that they're in physical bodies even then. As far as your last question, where is the rich man who wanted Lazarus to bring him a thimble of water, and where is the saint, of John's brethren, who conducted some of the tour in the book of Revelation?

[votivesoul]

Eternal Death and Annihilation are not the same doctrines. Annihilation is being winked out of existence, as if removed from all reality. That is not Bible. Rather, eternal death is the punishment for dying in unrighteousness before a Holy God.

The dead, saint and sinner alike, await the resurrection. For the saint, resurrection of the just occurs and is the first resurrection, over which the second death has no power. They are granted eternal life, that is, permanent immortality.

For the rest of the dead, they experience the resurrection of the unjust and are brought before the throne for judgment. All those found wanting according to their works are cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. They are granted eternal death, that is, permanent mortality.

They are not annihilated anymore than if you took a corpse and reduced it to bone chips and ashes. Merely the form of the matter has changed, but it still exists as matter.

Similarily, the second death reduces sinners to everlasting destruction, from which there is no recovery, but it doesn't wink them out of existence.

The quotes from Mark 9 from the Lord Jesus regarding the fire that is not quenched and the maggots (thanks, Bro EB!) that do not die is from Isaiah 66. There we are told that the corpses of the unrighteous are seen. They are abhorrent to the living. There bodies are riddled with maggots who feast of their dead flesh. They are disposed of in Jerusalem's garbage heap, Gehenna, which was perpetually set on fire to burn away the uncleanness of the area.

In no way were these corpses annihilated into non-existence. Rather, they were former living humans who have died and been dumped by judgment into the hell-hole assigned to the unrighteous.

They are forever dead, even as maggots feast on and lay their eggs in, their rotting corpses.

This is what the Lord Jesus refers to. He didn't teach annihilation. He taught eternal death. Those who suffer the second death are literally dead, reduced to being deprived of all consciousness, and therefore "know nothing". But they are still an abhorrence to the living righteous.

[Michael The Disciple]

This is what the Lord Jesus refers to. He didn't teach annihilation. He taught eternal death. Those who suffer the second death are literally dead, reduced to being deprived of all consciousness, and therefore "know nothing". But they are still an abhorrence to the living righteous.

Good point.

[TulsaDavid]

There will never be a "know nothing" in the lake of fire. That is so contradictory to the principle of judgment and punishment, to conjure that it will be imperceptible to those being punished. "An abhorrence to the living righteous"??? Their tears will be wiped away. Where are you getting these ideas, guys? Come on.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

There will never be a "know nothing" in the lake of fire. That is so contradictory to the principle of judgment and punishment, to conjure that it will be imperceptible to those being punished. "An abhorrence to the living righteous"??? Their tears will be wiped away. Where are you getting these ideas, guys? Come on.

Where did you get the idea the soul is immortal?

The soul that sins shall die. Ezekiel 18:4
He that turns the sinner back saves his soul from death. James 5:20

OT and OT agree. Souls die.

[TulsaDavid]

My lands, if you have to ask, not realizing the rich man in hell was NOT a parable, not knowing that we will be as the angels, not knowing that the torment of those in the lake of fire is unceasing from the eons of eons, then we may not have much ground for discussion. I assume you realize these things. I also assume you realize that the definition of death of a soul is not nothingness, but eternal separation from life, as defined by scripture as eternal salvation. The lake of fire IS the second death. They inhabitants will be quite cognizant and in unceasing torture.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

My lands, if you have to ask, not realizing the rich man in hell was NOT a parable, not knowing that we will be as the angels, not knowing that the torment of those in the lake of fire is unceasing from the eons of eons, then we may not have much ground for discussion. I assume you realize these things. I also assume you realize that the definition of death of a soul is not nothingness, but eternal separation from life, as defined by scripture as eternal salvation. The lake of fire IS the second death. They inhabitants will be quite cognizant and in unceasing torture.

The only thing I agree with here is that the righteous will be as the angels. One cannot base immortal soul belief on the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Not once is "soul" mentioned in the parable. Men have invented the idea the rich man soul was in Hell. It's not in the text.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The only thing I agree with here is that the righteous will be as the angels. One cannot base immortal soul belief on the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Not once is "soul" mentioned in the parable. Men have invented the idea the rich man soul was in Hell. It's not in the text.

I always considered it a parable. But if its speaking of what the judgment is like then maybe the earth and the sea had given up the dead that was in them and his body and spirit/soul was cast into the lake of fire.