Going back to the UPC

[Sam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Some UPC churches do not foster judgmentalism. Some do. There's good and bad ones.

which would be the good ones
and which would be the bad ones?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sam

which would be the good ones
and which would be the bad ones?

The ones who foster judgmentalism would be the bad ones.

You're joking, right? lol Have to always watch you. lol

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Wow this is tough ... because THE TRUTH is, GOD himself wants family peace. To reject this truth in pursuit of another is questionable unless it is very clearly a matter of salvation.

Right! It could only be applied to nothing more than a matter of salvation.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Hello all-
Well some if not most of you know that I had left the UPC church I went to, but my wife and daugther stayed. Well this has put a strain on us alittle and has hurt my relationship with her family. Well my daughter is almost 2 and I came to the decision of returning to the UPC for now and maybe forever. This will keep the consitancy in raising our child/children. As oppose to them choosing to go the charasmatic church with me and maybe getting confused on the teaching. I will definately raise my kids right. My wife and I see eye to eye on most if not all issues, but she just can not leave there. So back I go. What do you all think? I am curious to hear what you all have to say.

Congratulations on reentering The Ark!!!

Seriously though you have to do what you feel is right as the spiritual leader of your home and if this is what you feel is right go for it!

The important thing is to find a church and get connected to it for support and accountibility.

I just hope this is a church you can do that in.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Very true, Brother Blume.

And as others look around and measure what they perceive of the UPC, we are also doing the same.

Everyone is looking at each other's churches. Which do I want to be a part of? What is best for me and my family? I believe we seek God's will first, which I know all agree upon.

Since this is about the UPC and I was slammed as being stereotypical, I'll just say that people in the UPC do look around and wonder or are curious if there is something better to be offered since we do hear what people say about the org. When we don't find it, we stay where we are. It's just a given.

And yes it is my experience that I have found nothing better, thus far and so I will be my stereotypical self and stay.

Many of the UPC churches do not adhere to dress standards as a heaven or hell issue, there are some things that are changing. Some of us are staying in and changing with it. After all, we want God's will. Others leave and that is fine, but others feel compelled to stay. That is also fine.

Praying for JUTLLOCK and his family.

Just for the record, I was not referring to the fact that you are staying in the UPC as being stereotypical, it's the way you seemed to paint all who didn't hold a standard as being suntanned, low-bloused, apparently worldly and immodest TBN-ites.

In my experience, this is far from the truth.

Maybe in your experience, these are the only types of non-UPC people you've met, and I gave you that.

But to imply that all who do not hold a "standard" are this way is to insult many good people on this forum, including Renda, Sherri, MOW, and many others.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Just for the record, I was not referring to the fact that you are staying in the UPC as being stereotypical, it's the way you seemed to paint all who didn't hold a standard as being suntanned, low-bloused, apparently worldly and immodest TBN-ites.

In my experience, this is far from the truth.

Maybe in your experience, these are the only types of non-UPC people you've met, and I gave you that.

But to imply that all who do not hold a "standard" are this way is to insult many good people on this forum, including Renda, Sherri, MOW, and many others.

...WELL WE DO KNOW ABOUT... Renda's Wheelchair, Sherri's Digital Pastor, and MOW's Speedos and I resent the implication that TBN has sunk that low!

[Sister Alvear]

There are many precious people on this forum and I refuse to let a card divide me from my brothers and sisters.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Just for the record, I was not referring to the fact that you are staying in the UPC as being stereotypical, it's the way you seemed to paint all who didn't hold a standard as being suntanned, low-bloused, apparently worldly and immodest TBN-ites.

In my experience, this is far from the truth.

Maybe in your experience, these are the only types of non-UPC people you've met, and I gave you that.

But to imply that all who do not hold a "standard" are this way is to insult many good people on this forum, including Renda, Sherri, MOW, and many others.

That isn't even what I was implying by describing this woman. You just read it that way.

All I was saying, as people seem to think we've missed it, I didn't see this woman as godly.

That had nothing whatsoever do to with anyone on this Board. My exact words were: "in any of the areas I've lived".

If you read it any other way it's because you wanted to read it that way. But I understand it's the nature of a Forum.

[GodsBabyGirl]

Originally Posted by Rico

Brother, I was talking about face to face encounters, not posting on a website. When it comes to posting on websites I think the standard keepers and non standard keepers are in a dead heat. In terms of having the gall to walk up to someone and tell them what they need to be doing or not doing, the standard keepers are much more guilty, in my opinion. I've seen it happen more times than I care to remember.

Welll, Rico, I have a couple of questions for you. Number 1 are you a woman? Do you keep the standards that Apostolic women are told to do?

Two, Have you frequented any non denominational churches lately?

I imagine the answers to both questions will be no. So you cannot make a proper assessment on this matter.

As a woman that has held to Apostolic standards WHILE not only being a member, as it were, of a non denominational church, but also having been a preacher in that environment.

No, I wasn't walking around with a sign, 'HEY, I DONT WEAR PANTS, MAKEUP, JEWELRY, ETC. I came from an Apostolic church..'

It was obvious and was noticed by others in the church. I HAVE had people, even pastors and others in leadership confront me and ask me why I was so rigid in this matter. No, I didnt teach standards because it would have been out of order in that environment AND I dont believe it is a salvational issue.

I have had folks talk about me. Fellow ministers on the staff would talk about people who held to standards, yet I said nothing. I just tried to be humble.

I say all that to say this...the fact that JT's wife is more comfortable where she is adhering to the standards she believes are placed on her by God...then it is my advice she stays where she is. Especially having a daughter to raise. I can tell you, it will confuse her...

God's grace is sufficient and my daughter wont put on a pair of pants and believes this way more strongly than she ever has since she has seen the foolishness in the false churches. I give GOD the glory for that!

But I speak to or more agree with JT's decision because it keeps his family together and since his wife is the weaker vessel, he being stronger can deal with where she is and worshipping there than she and her daughter would at a church where standards are not that important.

I tell you...even the most so called loving of environments can become somewhat hostile against what we believe when it causes them to question what they have...or dont have.

I wouldnt want any, AND I DO MEAN ANY, apostolic woman to go thru the hell I went thru...

[GodsBabyGirl]

And I also want to add, I understand that all who dont adhere to standards are not hostile to those who do.

I came across a few that accepted me where I was, standards and all.

I will say the day we are living in, the standards vs the non standards are about what and what.

There are a lot of ladies and men out there that wanna prove that holiness has nothing to do with what you wear. I have heard sermons from standard holders that preached non standard holders to hell

Then I have heard non standard holders preach standard holders to hell because of their religious and spiritual pride and self righteousness.

I hate to keep going up this standards tree, cuz I know it can be an ahem interesting topic.

But I am just offering another insight that many others here may not be able to offer to JT to support his decision he has made for his family.

Bro, You know you are doing what you feel is best....