***Districts begin to enforce Bernard Doctrine ***

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I was taught all of the above all of my life. It's certainly nothing new. I don't think the UPC is doing a 'new' thing, it's just reinforcing business as usual.

How old are you, if may be so bold as to ask? (Round numbers if you desire).

I've heard it "all of my life" as well, however to those in the generation right above me it was all new.

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

There are a large number of people who want that, who feel very strongly about it. So, as I said before, I think it's inevitable that there is going to have to be a parting of the ways between that group and the group that is deemed more 'liberal'.

It is due to the historical time line of events here that I have a hard time calling the "PCI crowd" and those who are like-minded "liberal."

The uncut hair is really a "new thing," particularly when it comes to making it salvific and the whole "angels" thing that S.G. Norris introduced in 1937.

The prohibition on women wearing pants was a development from other groups and became a mainstay after the men returned from WW2 and chased the "Rosie the Riveters" out of the factories. Now, due to union corruption and bad government even the factories are gone - but that's another matter.

Just reading the works of people like A.D. Urshan, John Dearing, Howard Goss, Frank Bartleman, William Seymour, Glenn Cook and Frank Ewart will show that the "Three Stepper" doctrine is an innovation.

Real "conservatives" don't push for such radical innovations and change. Just go through some old family albums and you'll see the changes.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by pelathais

How old are you, if may be so bold as to ask? (Round numbers if you desire).

I've heard it "all of my life" as well, however to those in the generation right above me it was all new.

It is due to the historical time line of events here that I have a hard time calling the "PCI crowd" and those who are like-minded "liberal."

The uncut hair is really a "new thing," particularly when it comes to making it salvific and the whole "angels" thing that S.G. Norris introduced in 1937.

The prohibition on women wearing pants was a development from other groups and became a mainstay after the men returned from WW2 and chased the "Rosie the Riveters" out of the factories. Now, due to union corruption and bad government even the factories are gone - but that's another matter.

Just reading the works of people like A.D. Urshan, John Dearing, Howard Goss, Frank Bartleman, William Seymour, Glenn Cook and Frank Ewart will show that the "Three Stepper" doctrine is an innovation.

Real "conservatives" don't push for such radical innovations and change. Just go through some old family albums and you'll see the changes.

This is so RIGHT on so many levels that I just can't add anything to it! Well said!

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

Not sure why so many on AFF is so concerned with what UPCI does. Most of you have never been UPCI or are have been's. Either way, many of you don't even like the organization.

I couldn't help but notice that you didn't even question the accuracy of Pelathias' statements.

Maybe something yall can discuss on AMF.

[Sister Alvear]

AMF...

[BeenThinkin]

"Have beens!" ??? ........ I am very aware that in a format like this there is no way to detect the inflection of one's voice, or the spirit in which something is said. But, if I'm not wrong I detect a certain amount of disdain for us "have beens!"

I left the UPC, when as the country singer said about being "country when country wasn't cool," it wasn't cool to leave the UPC.

Why did I leave? No moral problems, not under question, wasn't pushed out. Just simply began to notice that as you travel around over a district it seemed that every church had a different set of rules. The big churches seemed to get by with things that little churches did not get by with. Maybe that wasn't the way it was totally but that was certainly the way it seemed as a majority. If everyone was following the same Bible, looks to me like there should be more agreement than disagreement.

I am sure of this though. There are almost as many sets of rules as there are churches. There are "liberal" UPC churches as much in fellowship as any other UPC church and there are "Ultraconservative-demanding others to line up with them," churches who are just as much a part of the UPC as the liberal. Mothers Memorial and Sheaves For Christ offerings are accepted just as readily from one as the other. Does everyone have to speak everything exactly the same...word for word? Not possible! So what do you do?

If the UPC would simply teach some basic foundational "principles" and in so doing not come across with the spirit of you're going to do it like I say or you're "not welcome here!" Let men of God be men of God and not just little "yes men" who sign "Affirmation Letters" that they in no way intend to follow to the letter but do so to simply keep their fellowship card.

Why is there a steady exodus of ministers leaving the UPC and why every few years is there another "split off" starting another fellowship or organization? Again, my opinion, but I think it's the spirit of "you're gonna do it my way or you're welcome to leave." This spirit coming from some DS and from the GS and those they influence.

Just a few thoughts from a "have been!"

BeenThinkin

[James Griffin]

The ACN is getting requests for licensing like never before.

Seriously doubt we are the only one.

One of the ironic things is a goodly number of them have no problem with the standards, its what they perceive as too much of a heavy hand and disgust with politics taking precedence over having church.

[EA]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

The ACN is getting requests for licensing like never before.

Seriously doubt we are the only one.

One of the ironic things is a goodly number of them have no problem with the standards, its what they perceive as too much of a heavy hand and disgust with politics taking precedence over having church.

What is the ACN?

I've never heard of it.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by pelathais

How old are you, if may be so bold as to ask? (Round numbers if you desire).

Early 40's, and yeah... I get your point about this not truly being the "old paths".

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

What is the ACN?

I've never heard of it.

Apostolic Christian Network

Small Oneness fellowship only a few years old, several hundred members.

Does do licensing, but more of a fellowship than organizational structure.

Most, but not all, are ex-UPC, but NO BASHING ALLOWED.

http://www.theacn.net/

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

Not sure why so many on AFF is so concerned with what UPCI does. Most of you have never been UPCI or are have been's. Either way, many of you don't even like the organization.

I gave a major part of my life to the UPC. My family is still heavily involved. What the UPC does affects me directly even though I am no longer a minister within the org.

Your statement is really just a canard intended to divert attention away from the wrong doing of the org. as a whole. Even if none of this affected me it would still be wrong - that is why so many others in the Christian community have spoken out against the direction the UPC has been going even though they are not directly impacted.

How much more ought those of us who literally poured out our lives speak out when we see things that are wrong?