left upci yr ago and still messed up

[AreYouReady?]

Oh and BTW, visiting rural towns in the deep south is NOT the same and living and experiencing life here. You will get a hearty, deep south hospitality welcome, but that ends when you actually live here and do not conform.

[Arphaxad]

I left the UPC church I was at (for almost 6 yrs) 2 weeks ago. You can guess some of the reasons if you remember that drunken rant I posted a month ago that got me banned from here for a while. When I told the pastor I was resigning from all ministry positions and leaving he almost convinced me to stay, but when I told him my mind was made up it got kind of ugly.
I never got real close with anyone there, and none of my family is upc so its been real easy for me, I don't really miss anything. I still have the HG, still pray, study the Bible, speak in tongues, holiness standards didn't affect me since I'm a guy(but i never fully agreed on the no pants for women, long= uncut hair doctrine, total abscence of jewlery and make-up, but just went along for it to not cause trouble).
Anyways I do all the things I did when i was there, just at a different church. Yeah, I've "gone charasmatic."

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

I left the UPC church I was at (for almost 6 yrs) 2 weeks ago. You can guess some of the reasons if you remember that drunken rant I posted a month ago that got me banned from here for a while. When I told the pastor I was resigning from all ministry positions and leaving he almost convinced me to stay, but when I told him my mind was made up it got kind of ugly.
I never got real close with anyone there, and none of my family is upc so its been real easy for me, I don't really miss anything. I still have the HG, still pray, study the Bible, speak in tongues, holiness standards didn't affect me since I'm a guy(but i never fully agreed on the no pants for women, long= uncut hair doctrine, total abscence of jewlery and make-up, but just went along for it to not cause trouble).
Anyways I do all the things I did when i was there, just at a different church. Yeah, I've "gone charasmatic."

I'm glad you've found another church to attend. Things get pretty rough sometimes, and the "pendulum" can swing pretty wildly for a while as you try to sort things out in your mind. Will be praying for you as you work through all of this... it can take a while. But keeping your focus on Jesus and the Word of God... and not on people will help... a lot!

[Jay]

I feel for your situation. I am sorry that you saw people who were not qualified for leadership roles. I have not said that I was in leadership, however I have been around leadership. I am aware that sometimes carnal people can rise to positions of leadership, and not always do people use their best judgment. This is partly a result of people being foolish or carnal. As long as there are imperfect people in the church, they will not behave perfectly. The other thing that could have been done would be to decline the opportunity to associate with these ladies very much.

I will admit to not having known all that there is, however this carnality is indicative of a lack of prayer and compassion. You were right and they in the wrong. Gossip like that does get back to people.

As for standards, only very rarely do people actually 'hear the voice of God' concerning these things. Generally it comes through study of the Word, prayer, and education. I do know that many times women (not sure why most men seem to fall in line with the possible exception of sleeves) will naturally start letting their hair grow, put away makeup and jewelry, and move toward skirts all the time. This is not always true as people advance at different speeds. I knew ladies that took nearly 6 months before they stopped wearing jewelry entirely, and on the other end some have quit within a short time and not understood why they had felt condemnation wearing it. The first was taught, and the other felt and then was taught. The learning curve is unique to all, even those who were raised in the church.

Standardsl do not remain the same for all people at all times. My parents have gradually changed their standards over the course of many years. They wore shorter sleves, had wedding rings, and a few other things. However, as they traveled through life, they realized that shorter sleeves showed more than was modest, applied the teachings against the wearing of gold to the wedding ring and other things that might be considered jewelry.

They then passed these on to us. Dad, being Pastor, hold to sleeves below the elbow, no rings, etc. Mom and Dad both wear their sleeves at three quarters. I alternate between wrist and shortly below the elbow (personal preference as three quarters just does not feel 'rolled up' enough for me).

People may view us as being extreme, but we are not that different. One thing that we endevour to teach is the importance of being holy internally as well as externally. That means not mocking people, loving one another (difficult sometimes I will admit), forgiving one another, and of course not neglecting prayer, fasting, and the reading and study of the Word.

I am aware that there are abuses. I could share some stories from my own life, however they are not encouraging to anyone else (a pastor attempted to do harm to us spiritually and to my father's ministry, but I will say no more because he was a man of God even then). I am the son of a pastor and have been my entire life as I was both born and raised in Pentecost.

I sat in the 2007 General Conference and heard what was said. I have heard what others had to say afterward about those of us that left.

God dealt with me on this topic recently, and there is not enough time for me to be concerned with what lies in the past. I have no time to be bitter, angry, or hurt. The only thing that matters is that souls are told this message. I realize that I have gone on at great length and apologize.

In closing, the Bible says that if you have anything against your brother, before you attempt to come before the throne of God, go and make peace with your brother. I would rather it roll off of me like water off a ducks back so that I do not have anything against anyone.

[trialedbyfire]

I'm not UPC, never have been.

I have three TVs in my home.

I play sports.

I go to the movies (not much anymore because of the economy, though).

I still grow weary of the attitude many people have towards the UPC. It's absolutely ridiculous. I'm very sure emotional hurt occurs in UPC, it happens in every church, because churches have people in them, and people aren't perfect. That's not an excuse to leave the church, the doctrine, or Christ. It's also not an excuse to bash the organization, especially if you left on your own accord because you had a disagreement. Call it what it is... a disagreement and move on. You don't have to rail against the organization, they are human, just like their defectors, they can be wrong and their defectors can be wrong.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

I'm not UPC, never have been.

I have three TVs in my home.

I play sports.

I go to the movies (not much anymore because of the economy, though).

I still grow weary of the attitude many people have towards the UPC. It's absolutely ridiculous. I'm very sure emotional hurt occurs in UPC, it happens in every church, because churches have people in them, and people aren't perfect. That's not an excuse to leave the church, the doctrine, or Christ. It's also not an excuse to bash the organization, especially if you left on your own accord because you had a disagreement. Call it what it is... a disagreement and move on. You don't have to rail against the organization, they are human, just like their defectors, they can be wrong and their defectors can be wrong.

You said it in your first statement - you've never been UPC. Whether people are railing against it or not, you really don't have room to pass judgment, since you've never walked a mile in their shoes.

The theme of this thread over and over has been that most of us left because of a disagreement over standards, not because someone has done us wrong.

What we're railing against is the attitude that we left because we were rebellious, backslidden, bitter, charismatic, non-submissive, proud, worldly, etc.....we're not railing against the organization, just some of the attitudes that are prevalent within any organization.

[Jay]

There is no UPC bashing in me. It is just a very sad situation there.

[AreYouReady?]

And I grow weary of people accusing others of UPC bashing when they are clearly emotional over some traumatic experience in the church they loved. These people want clarity about what to do next. They want to know how to get past the hurt and move on living their life for Christ.

And yes, it is an excuse to leave the Church...but it is not an excuse to leave Christ. These are two distinctly separate situations.

Sometimes it is best to leave the church in order to cut off the root of bitterness that may develop. Bitterness will defile many and cause dissension. Best to leave.

I haven't read anybody "railing" against the organization. What I have read and what I posted myself is the experience they had, and the experience I had. If it comes across as "railing" to you, I can't help that.

The problem with your solution as to calling it a disagreement and move on is not always what happens. Many times the people from the church you left will make sure you get bashed at other churches so that they will not give you a warm welcome. It is they ...who cannot move on until they thoroughly bash the "defector".

You say that they are "human"...some of them seem to forget that they are just human also.

[The Lemon]

Wow..what a thread! I appreciate all the responses that I have read on here. I would agree with many on here as saying that Jesus really needs to stay the focal point. It also does not hurt to do some self analysis as well. We are all motivated by something, and there comes a time when you have to search your own heart and spirit for why you do or don't do something.

I can remember not long ago making a statement in prayer that I was unsure that I really wanted the Lord's direction...I said this because after contemplating my life over the last few years, I found little in the way of asking Jesus what He thought. That is just me of course, but the point is that it all begins and ends with relationship, not religion, religious rituals, traditions, or a do and don't list.

Now, don't get me wrong, I know that every assembly has a minimum standard for leadership - I know this may seem like an over simplified answer, but, if you choose not to comply, then you simply are not involved in any "position" in that assembly, at least in most cases. If it really is an issue beyond that, then you have a huge decision to pray about / make.

I have said this before in other threads...it is my strong opinion that the UPCI is not for everybody, same with WPF, or any other OP org. Everyone that "makes it", will not necessarily be in one of these organizations...it is absurd to think otherwise. We have to work out our own salvation..

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

Wow..what a thread! I appreciate all the responses that I have read on here. I would agree with many on here as saying that Jesus really needs to stay the focal point. It also does not hurt to do some self analysis as well. We are all motivated by something, and there comes a time when you have to search your own heart and spirit for why you do or don't do something.

I can remember not long ago making a statement in prayer that I was unsure that I really wanted the Lord's direction...I said this because after contemplating my life over the last few years, I found little in the way of asking Jesus what He thought. That is just me of course, but the point is that it all begins and ends with relationship, not religion, religious rituals, traditions, or a do and don't list.

Now, don't get me wrong, I know that every assembly has a minimum standard for leadership - I know this may seem like an over simplified answer, but, if you choose not to comply, then you simply are not involved in any "position" in that assembly, at least in most cases. If it really is an issue beyond that, then you have a huge decision to pray about / make.

I have said this before in other threads...it is my strong opinion that the UPCI is not for everybody, same with WPF, or any other OP org. Everyone that "makes it", will not necessarily be in one of these organizations...it is absurd to think otherwise. We have to work out our own salvation..

Great post!