Scoffers on AFF

[houston]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

That's why you are not a preacher

Oh, please...

[ApostolicKitty]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

If this was a requirement then almost none of the apostles would have been apostles. Most of the apostolic fathers and early church pioneers that brought us this wonderful truth in America were not college-educated. They were just anointed and called of God.

That's why you are not a preacher

Hmmm. Maybe he's not a preacher because he was not called to be one.

Bro. J.A., why have you stolen my father's name?

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by ApostolicKitty

Hmmm. Maybe he's not a preacher because he was not called to be one.

Bro. J.A., why have you stolen my father's name?

No ma'am,
It was given to me by my mother, I didn't steal it, I promise it was actually my father's name first, and his name is Jose Al.

And I really wasn't throwing rocks at him honest, we in California do drive-bys.

[ApostolicKitty]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

No ma'am,
It was given to me by my mother, I didn't steal it, I promise it was actually my father's name first, and his name is Jose Al.

And I really wasn't throwing rocks at him honest, we in California do drive-bys.

ROFL.

I kid you not when I say my dad's name is Joseph Albert... and my maiden name is Perez.... but we are Louisiana people on my dad's side, specifically Islenos (roots from the Canary Islands). Can't help but think of my dad when I see your

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

If this was a requirement then almost none of the apostles would have been apostles. Most of the apostolic fathers and early church pioneers that brought us this wonderful truth in America were not college-educated. They were just anointed and called of God.

That's why you are not a preacher

That wasn't very nice.

[Sean]

for since the fathers fell asleep] Ordinarily, the “fathers,” as in Romans 9:5, would carry our thoughts back to the great progenitors of Israel as a people. Here, however, the stress laid by the mockers on the death of the fathers as the starting-point of the frustrated expectation, seems to give the word another application, and we may see in the “fathers” the first generation of the disciples of Christ, those who had “fallen asleep” without seeing the Advent they had looked for (1 Thessalonians 4:15); those who had reached the “end of their conversation” (Hebrews 13:7). The scoffers appealed to the continuity of the natural order of things. Seed-time and harvest, summer and winter, followed as they had done from the beginning of the creation. In the last phrase we may trace an echo of Mark 10:6; Mark 13:19. “You have told us,” they seem to have said, “of an affliction such as there has not been from the beginning of the creation, and lo! we find the world still goes on as of old, with no great catastrophe.” The answer to the sneer St Peter gives himself, but it may be noted that the question of the scoffers at least implies the early date of the writings in which the expectation of the Coming is prominent.

In the use of the verb to “fall asleep” for dying, we are reminded of our Lord’s words “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth” (John 11:11); of St Paul’s “many sleep” (1 Corinthians 11:30). So in Greek sculpture Death and Sleep appear as twin genii, and in Greek and Roman epitaphs nothing is more common than the record that the deceased “sleeps” below. Too often there is the addition, as of those who were without hope, “sleeps an eternal sleep.” In Christian language the idea of sleep is perpetuated in the term “cemetery” (κοιμητήριον = sleeping-place) as applied to the burial-place of the dead, but it is blended with that of an “awaking out of sleep” at the last day, and even with the thought, at first seemingly incompatible with it, that the soul is quickened into higher energies of life on its entrance into the unseen world.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...4OjPZQLPnQDKcQ

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Sean

for since the fathers fell asleep] Ordinarily, the “fathers,” as in Romans 9:5, would carry our thoughts back to the great progenitors of Israel as a people. Here, however, the stress laid by the mockers on the death of the fathers as the starting-point of the frustrated expectation, seems to give the word another application, and we may see in the “fathers” the first generation of the disciples of Christ, those who had “fallen asleep” without seeing the Advent they had looked for (1 Thessalonians 4:15); those who had reached the “end of their conversation” (Hebrews 13:7). The scoffers appealed to the continuity of the natural order of things. Seed-time and harvest, summer and winter, followed as they had done from the beginning of the creation. In the last phrase we may trace an echo of Mark 10:6; Mark 13:19. “You have told us,” they seem to have said, “of an affliction such as there has not been from the beginning of the creation, and lo! we find the world still goes on as of old, with no great catastrophe.” The answer to the sneer St Peter gives himself, but it may be noted that the question of the scoffers at least implies the early date of the writings in which the expectation of the Coming is prominent.



In the use of the verb to “fall asleep” for dying, we are reminded of our Lord’s words “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth” (John 11:11); of St Paul’s “many sleep” (1 Corinthians 11:30). So in Greek sculpture Death and Sleep appear as twin genii, and in Greek and Roman epitaphs nothing is more common than the record that the deceased “sleeps” below. Too often there is the addition, as of those who were without hope, “sleeps an eternal sleep.” In Christian language the idea of sleep is perpetuated in the term “cemetery” (κοιμητήριον = sleeping-place) as applied to the burial-place of the dead, but it is blended with that of an “awaking out of sleep” at the last day, and even with the thought, at first seemingly incompatible with it, that the soul is quickened into higher energies of life on its entrance into the unseen world.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...4OjPZQLPnQDKcQ

2 Peter 3:4-6. Where is the promise of his coming — To raise the dead, judge mankind, and destroy the earth? We see no sign of any such thing. The promise of Christ’s coming we have Matthew 15:27, The Son of man shall come in his glory, &c.; John 14:3, I will come and receive you to myself, &c., and in many other passages of the gospel; a promise which was renewed by the angels at our Lord’s ascension, and is spoken of in many passages of the epistles, especially in those of St. Paul. By representing Christ’s promised coming as a delusion, the scoffers set themselves and others free from all fear of a future judgment, and bereft the righteous of their hope of reward. For since the fathers fell asleep — Since our ancestors died; all things — Heaven, earth, air, water; continue as they were from the beginning of the creation — Without any such material change as might make us believe they will ever have an end. So say these scoffers.

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_peter/3-4.htm

Sean, maybe you should read these websites before you post. You just cherry pick, because you haven't the slightest idea of what you believe. Jesus was one of the fathers that fell asleep? You tripped over your feet on that one. Yet, you let that post get buried and didn't even produce any commentary from your mentor Google concerning Jesus being one of the father's that fell asleep.

[Evang.Benincasa]

for since the fathers fell asleep; or "died": which is the language of the Scriptures, and here sneered at by these men, who believe them so fast asleep as never to be awaked or raised more; and by "the fathers" they mean the first inhabitants of the world, as Adam, Abel, Seth, &c. and all the patriarchs and prophets in all ages; the Ethiopic version renders it, "our first fathers":

all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation; reasoning from the settled order of things, the constant revolution of the sun, moon, and stars, the permanency of the earth, and the succession of the inhabitants of it, to the future continuance of things, without any alteration; and consequently, that Christ would not come, as was promised, to raise the dead, judge mankind destroy the world, and set up a new state of things: the fallacy of which reasoning is exposed by the apostle in the following words.

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_peter/3-4.htm

Nice web page Sean.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

2 Peter 3:4-6. Where is the promise of his coming — To raise the dead, judge mankind, and destroy the earth? We see no sign of any such thing. The promise of Christ’s coming we have Matthew 15:27, The Son of man shall come in his glory, &c.; John 14:3, I will come and receive you to myself, &c., and in many other passages of the gospel; a promise which was renewed by the angels at our Lord’s ascension, and is spoken of in many passages of the epistles, especially in those of St. Paul. By representing Christ’s promised coming as a delusion, the scoffers set themselves and others free from all fear of a future judgment, and bereft the righteous of their hope of reward. For since the fathers fell asleep — Since our ancestors died; all things — Heaven, earth, air, water; continue as they were from the beginning of the creation — Without any such material change as might make us believe they will ever have an end. So say these scoffers.

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_peter/3-4.htm

Sean, maybe you should read these websites before you post. You just cherry pick, because you haven't the slightest idea of what you believe. Jesus was one of the fathers that fell asleep? You tripped over your feet on that one. Yet, you let that post get buried and didn't even produce any commentary from your mentor Google concerning Jesus being one of the father's that fell asleep.

Did you notice I inserted a site with multiple points of view, including your preterist point of view?

[Sean]

Verses that prove the Apostles/ elders were considered "spiritual" fathers...



Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord....

For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.....

To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.....

Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children....

I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.....

For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
.....