Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan
Yes, I saw the movie too! It's not the same thing. The command center was not really "on site" because it was a short distance away from the site itself.
|
I missed the movie, I was going from news reports and what I know about West Street and the area around the World Trade Center. He wasn't under the footprint of the collapse, but he was within a radius within which others were killed. As mayor his statement wasn't hyperbole, it was from the standpoint of leadership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan
Oh, please! We had planes flying over Iraq for those 10 years and sometimes they did engage when fired upon. So he engaged in a little hyperbole - Giuliani did more than his share of that, including in his claim to have been a survivor of 9/11.
|
Chan, respectfully here, you said
"and sometimes they did engage when fired upon." With a single exception,
the only time during those 10 years that the US fired upon Iraqi installations was when the very plane that fired was "locked" on by ground radar. And that single exception was when BC launched some cruise missiles at Iraqi air control in response to something Monica Lewinsky said (
we probably feel the same revulsion there).
But at no time was there ever a condition that could be even remotely described as "bombing Iraq..."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan
The point of the matter is that we were over Iraqi airspace where we had no business being. I don't care if it was part of a cease fire agreement imposed on Sadaam Hussein, we had no business over there.
|
This would go to your fundamental view of when the use of force is necessary. I personally don't like the use of our military forces, but I recognize that from the stand point of our national interests, we have to use force sometimes. The issue with Sadaam was one of those occassions, in my view.
That it dragged out so long was the result of the fact that Sadaam and others knew they could manipulate the divisions in the West and in America in particular to get away with a lot. If just all of NATO had stood firm (France and Germany) in 2002, there probably would have been no need for 2003. Sadaam and Sons, INC. would be sunning in southern France today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan
I'm well aware of that - I was in the Gulf War! It's not relevant because, again, the United States had no business being over there.
|
Thank you for your service. I know it was a sacrifice, but it is really appreciated, whatever disagreements we may have. In fact, in part because you did serve we can disagree, and agree.
From a national policy stand point, I have to disagree. Despite the losses we suffered, freeing Kuwait and trying to maintain the terms of the cease fire were good policy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan
That you made such a remark shows you didn't really pay attention to what he said and most definitely didn't pay attention to the context of his statement.
|
No, I did read the entire statement three times and have thought about motivations, etc. I am really concerned about the Rosie O'Donnell-like aspects of what he said. Maybe he was just trying to get in some digs and stand out and apart from the "front runners..." but it was unnecessary at best; a stab in the back at worst. Just my perception.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan
Ron Paul is on the side of THE CONSTITUTION! Only enemies of the United States would not be on the side of the Constitution.
|
I'm sure he is. What I said, I said with maybe some of the hyperbole that you mention. It's just that I am concerned about how, or if we stand together as a country. All of the paranoid conspiracy stuff makes us look even more divided than we really are.
And, no. The United States did not "deserve" 9/11. To the extent that "we brought it upon ourselves," the examples cited by RP do not warrant the deliberate targeting of 3,000 civilian lives. There are ways to fight back in this world, and when it's the US you are fighting, those ways can be very financially rewarding to the "other side."
Look at Germany and Japan. Russia should have pleaded mea culpa in 1990 and we would have poured even more billions into that country than we already have. The fact that our "defeated enemies" are doing so well, says a lot about us and our military (your hard work included). We should emphasize that message.
God bless.
Threaded Mode
