First the AG, next the UPC???

bdlooney · #1 10-29-2007, 04:55 PM

I visited with my Bishop that I grew up under this weekend. He is a pastor of pastors. He is a part of the UPC and pastored the same church 47 years.

He is almost 80 years old and was a 35 year old Assembly of God evangelist when he received the revelation of the mighty God in Christ. Years ago, he was personally at the AG General Conference and with his own eyes and ears saw and heard the grayheads of the AG plead with the conference to hold the line on standards of holiness. The conference would not listen and history has revealed the outcome of that decision.

He is not UC but preaches very straight and always been principle and relationship driven and not rules based. He said that if the people would abide by just what resolution 4 allows then there is not much cause for concern but he knows that it is merely a foothold and that it will not stop at #4.

He wondered aloud, "I saw the compromise of one organization, I guess I may live to see the compromise of another."

Could it be that with the entrance of #4 this could be the start of the end for the UPC? It took the AG more than a few years to get where it is today. So it may not be this year or next but in 50 years what will the UPC look like? Could Thad be speculating about a merger of the UPC and the AG?

God Forbid!!

StillStanding · #2 10-29-2007, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdlooney

I visited with my Bishop that I grew up under this weekend. He is a pastor of pastors. He is a part of the UPC and pastored the same church 47 years.

He is almost 80 years old and was a 35 year old Assembly of God evangelist when he received the revelation of the mighty God in Christ. Years ago, he was personally at the AG General Conference and with his own eyes and ears saw and heard the grayheads of the AG plead with the conference to hold the line on standards of holiness. The conference would not listen and history has revealed the outcome of that decision.

He is not UC but preaches very straight and always been principle and relationship driven and not rules based. He said that if the people would abide by just what resolution 4 allows then there is not much cause for concern but he knows that it is merely a foothold and that it will not stop at #4.

He wondered aloud, "I saw the compromise of one organization, I guess I may live to see the compromise of another."

Could it be that with the entrance of #4 this could be the start of the end for the UPC? It took the AG more than a few years to get where it is today. So it may not be this year or next but in 50 years what will the UPC look like? Could Thad be speculating about a merger of the UPC and the AG?

God Forbid!!

I am of a different mind set than you, so I think that what is going on in the UPCI right now is the best thing to happen since they merged in 1945!!!!!

Steve Epley · #3 10-29-2007, 05:00 PM

I read an article sometime ago from an AG theologian commenting on how the AG had lost it's moorings. He cited stats where that a great number of AG preachers do not even claim the HGB and in many churches it is treated so low key that a great majority of AG do not have the HGB. He said when the AG compromized on standards they have lost ground every sense. This man teaches at Evangel or did at the time.

Sandra · #4 10-29-2007, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianoman

I am of a different mind set than you, so I think that what is going on in the UPCI right now is the best thing to happen since they merged in 1945!!!!!

I agree.

pelathais · #5 10-29-2007, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdlooney

I visited with my Bishop that I grew up under this weekend. He is a pastor of pastors. He is a part of the UPC and pastored the same church 47 years.

He is almost 80 years old and was a 35 year old Assembly of God evangelist when he received the revelation of the mighty God in Christ. Years ago, he was personally at the AG General Conference and with his own eyes and ears saw and heard the grayheads of the AG plead with the conference to hold the line on standards of holiness. The conference would not listen and history has revealed the outcome of that decision.

He is not UC but preaches very straight and always been principle and relationship driven and not rules based. He said that if the people would abide by just what resolution 4 allows then there is not much cause for concern but he knows that it is merely a foothold and that it will not stop at #4.

He wondered aloud, "I saw the compromise of one organization, I guess I may live to see the compromise of another."

Could it be that with the entrance of #4 this could be the start of the end for the UPC? It took the AG more than a few years to get where it is today. So it may not be this year or next but in 50 years what will the UPC look like? Could Thad be speculating about a merger of the UPC and the AG?

God Forbid!!

What exactly was "the outcome" that "history revealed?" The AoG didn't become Trinitarian in their doctrine and renounce Jesus Name baptism, did they?

Pastor Keith · #6 10-29-2007, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdlooney

I visited with my Bishop that I grew up under this weekend. He is a pastor of pastors. He is a part of the UPC and pastored the same church 47 years.

He is almost 80 years old and was a 35 year old Assembly of God evangelist when he received the revelation of the mighty God in Christ. Years ago, he was personally at the AG General Conference and with his own eyes and ears saw and heard the grayheads of the AG plead with the conference to hold the line on standards of holiness. The conference would not listen and history has revealed the outcome of that decision.

He is not UC but preaches very straight and always been principle and relationship driven and not rules based. He said that if the people would abide by just what resolution 4 allows then there is not much cause for concern but he knows that it is merely a foothold and that it will not stop at #4.

He wondered aloud, "I saw the compromise of one organization, I guess I may live to see the compromise of another."

Could it be that with the entrance of #4 this could be the start of the end for the UPC? It took the AG more than a few years to get where it is today. So it may not be this year or next but in 50 years what will the UPC look like? Could Thad be speculating about a merger of the UPC and the AG?

God Forbid!!

I have a different take, of course my opinion is worth it's weight, nothing.
But the AOG has been on a track to become more like its Evangelical brothers, scholarship, standing in Theological circles, to shy away from any manifestation of the Spirit that would casuse concern or possible mockery. I don't think it to be totally about Holiness Standards, Holiness maybe, but I think just a plain o, spirit of Laodecia that all organizations and movements fight when they get to far removed what/how they started, the OP's has been fortunate in that regard in that we have pushed for renewal and restoration continually.

Nahum · #7 10-29-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I read an article sometime ago from an AG theologian commenting on how the AG had lost it's moorings. He cited stats where that a great number of AG preachers do not even claim the HGB and in many churches it is treated so low key that a great majority of AG do not have the HGB. He said when the AG compromized on standards they have lost ground every sense. This man teaches at Evangel or did at the time.

This is what the new breed of PCI mush is pushing for.

Steve Epley · #8 10-29-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

This is what the new breed of PCI mush is pushing for.

Not to pick a fight with my friends but churches like Christ Church is there already as mentioned by none other than Pianoman. I forget how long he said it had been since someone there had preached about the HGB and not seeing anyone recieve it?

Thad · #9 10-29-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Not to pick a fight with my friends but churches like Christ Church is there already as mentioned by none other than Pianoman. I forget how long he said it had been since someone there had preached about the HGB and not seeing anyone recieve it?

This is what happens when a church becomes all inclusive or NON denomiational. you have to start appeasing all camps, all backgrounds, and all taste and styles. It becomes a people pleaing business/

Over 70% of AG has never spoken in tongues- and That is THEIR statistics!!

Hesetmefree238 · #10 10-29-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad

This is what happens when a church becomes all inclusive or NON denomiational. you have to start appeasing all camps, all backgrounds, and all taste and styles. It becomes a people pleaing business/

Over 70% of AG has never spoken in tongues- and That is THEIR statistics!!

So sad, for a church that was born in the cradle of pentecostal revival in
the early 1900's.