Tithing…Is it a command? - Page 93

Rudy · #1 10-13-2014, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

Those "buddies" are not going to answer question posed to them. But they will continue to demand we answer questions, ignore our answers pretending they didn't see them, and then taunt us for not answering knowing full well that we did.

And these are our pastors?

For some reason we keep going to their buildings and support what we teach against. I'm not against buildings but we need to start a work and network with like minded people.

I was in the S.W. part of Louisiana a while back and everywhere we went there were Pentecostals. I made mention of this and was told most of them you see have no church home. I'm guessing legalism/forced tithing being the reason why.

I'm not a preacher and don't feel called to be one. I'm dealing with an illness and not sure how much longer I can function {being mobile}. Having said that I would like to relocate and assist in something that reflects my beliefs. No sense to keep putting time and treasure in orgs that will not line up.

Sean · #2 10-14-2014, 07:59 AM

Levitical Tithe-Recipients Could Not Own Land.

The false assumption today is that preachers can both receive tithes and also own land.

In exchange for receiving tithes, both Levites and priests forfeited all rights to permanent land inheritance inside Israel (Num 18:20-26; Deu 12:12; 14:27, 29; 18:1, 2; Josh 13:14, 33; 14:3; 18:7; Eze 44:28). Even if tithes were New Covenant they would first go to the ordinary workers who assist the preachers and maintain the buildings.

Originalist · #3 10-14-2014, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Levitical Tithe-Recipients Could Not Own Land.

The false assumption today is that preachers can both receive tithes and also own land.

In exchange for receiving tithes, both Levites and priests forfeited all rights to permanent land inheritance inside Israel (Num 18:20-26; Deu 12:12; 14:27, 29; 18:1, 2; Josh 13:14, 33; 14:3; 18:7; Eze 44:28). Even if tithes were New Covenant they would first go to the ordinary workers who assist the preachers and maintain the buildings.

When things like this are pointed out the pro-tithers hit the "pre-law" escape button and argue that since tithing is mentioned before the Law it is still in effect now. But later, when it suits them, they'll go right back to arguing for tithing citing Malachi chapter 3. There is no group who takes liberties with scripture like this bunch does. They make up the rules of interpretation as they go.

Sean · #4 10-14-2014, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

When things like this are pointed out the pro-tithers hit the "pre-law" escape button and argue that since tithing is mentioned before the Law it is still in effect now. But later, when it suits them, they'll go right back to arguing for tithing citing Malachi chapter 3. There is no group who takes liberties with scripture like this bunch does. They make up the rules of interpretation as they go.

Yes indeed, they are "masters" at the principles of hermeneutics, but when it comes to the doctrine of tithing, they are suddenly "novices"...LOL

Sean · #5 10-14-2014, 05:22 PM

I had a 4 hour breakfast visit with a UPC pastor/presbyter today. It was VERRRRY interesting. He wants our help, but I told him there can be NO situations with our tithing differences. We are praying with him about a "compromise" on his part to help there. He mentioned the "God robber" thing and I told him that he could have a "God robber" working in his congregation.(me). He will have to back off on that rhetoric to have us help him.

I showed him my take on the Law(no partial Law). That we are not under it, so Mal. doesnt apply. He saw exactly where I was coming from. I will keep you guys informed about it. I am hoping for a "breakthrough" for us in the UPC.(this man is an elder and very well known in the area)

Rudy · #6 10-14-2014, 07:42 PM

I believe in the upc ministers are obligated to sign a statement that they will teach and practice tithing. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. What kind of help is he looking for?

good samaritan · #7 10-14-2014, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy

I believe in the upc ministers are obligated to sign a statement that they will teach and practice tithing. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. What kind of help is he looking for?

licensed upc ministers are expected to commit to tithing but there are no rules saying they must teach tithing to the church they pastor that I know of.

Esphes45 · #8 10-14-2014, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

I had a 4 hour breakfast visit with a UPC pastor/presbyter today. It was VERRRRY interesting. He wants our help, but I told him there can be NO situations with our tithing differences. We are praying with him about a "compromise" on his part to help there. He mentioned the "God robber" thing and I told him that he could have a "God robber" working in his congregation.(me). He will have to back off on that rhetoric to have us help him.

I showed him my take on the Law(no partial Law). That we are not under it, so Mal. doesnt apply. He saw exactly where I was coming from. I will keep you guys informed about it. I am hoping for a "breakthrough" for us in the UPC.(this man is an elder and very well known in the area)

I'm surprised someone from UPC would compromise alone like that. I thought they would have to get approval or something. You must be important to his cause.

good samaritan · #9 10-14-2014, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

I had a 4 hour breakfast visit with a UPC pastor/presbyter today. It was VERRRRY interesting. He wants our help, but I told him there can be NO situations with our tithing differences. We are praying with him about a "compromise" on his part to help there. He mentioned the "God robber" thing and I told him that he could have a "God robber" working in his congregation.(me). He will have to back off on that rhetoric to have us help him.

I showed him my take on the Law(no partial Law). That we are not under it, so Mal. doesnt apply. He saw exactly where I was coming from. I will keep you guys informed about it. I am hoping for a "breakthrough" for us in the UPC.(this man is an elder and very well known in the area)

I am glad you are getting to talk this important issue of tithing I am a pro tither and I believe tithing is a good discipline, but I do think that it should be freewill and led by God giving. Many of the points you have made on this thread I think would at least make people rethink their position. I don't think we should drop the teaching of tithing, but I certainly think people's approach to is needs much improvement.

We need to have open dialogue with those we disagree with in order for us to become more doctrinly true. I even think we should be more eager to open our Bibles with trinitarians in a more brotherly way. I am not saying that we agree with false teaching, but if I will not listen to what they have to say why should they listen to what I have say.

Originalist · #10 10-14-2014, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I am glad you are getting to talk this important issue of tithing I am a pro tither and I believe tithing is a good discipline, but I do think that it should be freewill and led by God giving. Many of the points you have made on this thread I think would at least make people rethink their position. I don't think we should drop the teaching of tithing, but I certainly think people's approach to is needs much improvement.

We need to have open dialogue with those we disagree with in order for us to become more doctrinly true. I even think we should be more eager to open our Bibles with trinitarians in a more brotherly way. I am not saying that we agree with false teaching, but if I will not listen to what they have to say why should they listen to what I have say.

I appreciate your attitude on this. It's better than my former pastor who said, "I don't like going to church with thieves!" from the pulpit. How could he forget that those who are lagging in their giving might truly be going through a hard time and also feel horrible that they aren't giving as much as they like? I'm still blown away by this.

However, there certainly is nothing "wrong" with giving 10% to the work of God! As you said it can be a good discipline. But why can't the pro-tithers teach people to take baby steps, like starting out at giving just one percent? Then later they can gradually add a percentage or two until they finally reach 10%. But no! We have to throw Malachi's curse at them!! Shame on all who do that!! SHAME!! You are a disgrace to the ministry!