Prosthelizing from new org

[Sam]

Originally Posted by tstew

You can usually start with "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", and not engage in anything that you know you would not want done in your assembly. That usually goes a long way.

Now what does that kind of an attitude have to do with (religious) politics?

[tstew]

Originally Posted by Sam

Now what does that kind of an attitude have to do with (religious) politics?

Yeah, I guess that is where it falls apart.

[jaxfam6]

I can remember back in the 70's and 80's when I was still ULTRA CON and attending a church that was part of the super ultra con organization. If someone left the UPC, ALJC, PAW, or any other org and wanted to come to them they did not ask questions and they did not ask them to tell their pastor why they were leaving or to t least leave on good terms. They simply accepted them in.

When I left that group and went to an ALJC church the pastor told me that if I wanted to attend where he pastored I needed to make sure I told my former pastor why I was leaving. He said to do it in person if possible, if not by phone. In my circumstances he advised I could also write a letter if I felt it best but it had to be done and be read by the pastor before I could attend. He also wanted me to state where I was going to go. I did so and life was horrible for my family for several months. See my brother had been my pastor and it was not just a church thing but we had to be able to see each other at family get togethers. He did not talk to me for 6 months and then when he did it as because I forced him and he was nasty. Took him 3 years to get through it and finally understand why I did what I did.

Now that all said to say this.

I had a friend that had not being going to church for 5 years. If he did it was only a visit from time to time but not regular. His wife still went to that church I had left. After about 2 years of going there and still being in touch with him and his family he told me that he had been thinking of coming to visit with us but wanted his wife to come with him. He did not want his family going to different churches. She refused. Two more years and his dad passed away and he again expressed desire to attend with us. I looked at his wife and told her he was the leader of his family and to be biblically correct she should go where he said. She said she had a church and was not going to leave it. I told her then that when her marriage was distroyed and they were both not serving God she only was going to have herself to blame. If he wanted to go some place else where he felt he could serve God she should go with him no matter where it was as long as it taught truth. Well today they are divorced and both live with out people and neither of them go to church.

To bring to a close. I was accused of proslytizing. This boy did not even go to church there only his wife did. You would think that they would be happy about him going to church ANYWHERE just so he was going. Not so.

proselytize
intransitive verb
1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
transitive verb
: to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause

If you are trying to get people to join your church you obviously think that the church they go to is wrong. Does it make it right to do so? Well from my experience the general mind set is that it is okay for me to do it to you but not for you to do it to me.

[A.W. Bowman]

Now, aside from the fact no one has actually defined ethical conduct or how it relates to one's moral character or personal integrity, we are left with one glaring issue, which is the question of spiritual loyalty.

What we have expressed on these pages is that one must be loyal to one’s organization, one’s pastor (or other appointed authority) and to be loyal to the local assembly.

We also have had expressed the idea that it is wrong to engage in “sheep stealing”, e.g. inviting members of another church (same organization) to visit (or even join) your church.

That the proselytize other churches, religious groups and organizations is Okay – or even from the same organization if the pastor gives his/her permission, as it is currently done in a number of churches I have attended.

That local church attendance is really all about people numbers and the money they bring into the coffers.

What have I missed?

Oh yes, our first loyalty is to be to people, things, and activities, in that order. I can’t think of a book, chapter and verse right off hand, but that’s Bible. Right? Yet, somewhere burred in all of those words, is a little known and even less practiced principle concerning the theory that there is but one God, one Spirit, one Christ and He has only one undivided church – consisting of many parts. Now, even though there are no scriptures to support this strange concept, I am convinced that my allegiance is to be to God through Jesus Christ, and I am to give honor (not allegiance, worship, or lordship) to those appointed over me. And, to those to have the responsibility of teaching the word of God, I am to render double honor. Abstract concepts, I realize, but gee, would it not be nice when we all reach the unity of the Faith among the brethren rather than just conformity of look and actions within a closed meeting? What if all of the really called of God ministers of the faith came together and created a area wide counsel of elders to over see the many local assemblies? And, weeded out those wolves in sheep’s clothing from among us!

Ah, what if we were no longer in bondage to building programs? What if we actually spent out our money, not on mortgages, utilities, and building maintenance but on spreading the gospel of the kingdom of God, taking care of the elderly, the widow, the orphan, the sick, the poor, and imprisoned? First to those within the body of believers and also to those outside of our group. What ever happened “to the Jew first and also the Gentile”? Novel concepts, I know. These ideas will never fly except in someone’s flight of fancy.

So I charge you all, keep your priorities straight: Keep your allegiance to the pastor first (be he right or wrong, called of God or just another wolf, it makes no difference as long as you don’t make any waves), the congregation second (growing in the Spirit or not, even stunted or dying), and your programs third (do what makes one look good among the congregation and even within the society at large) – then if you have any time, money or energy left, you might consider your family’s needs, and we can always let someone else take care of the lost, the dying and the hurting.

I have met a few church leaders who actually practiced what they preached. I can hear their voices almost as if they all said the same words. “If you cannot get your spiritual needs met here, under my teaching and leadership, please let me help you find a church that will met your needs, and where God can put you into the ministry He has called you to. Your soul and spiritual growth is more important to God than your presence on Sunday morning in this church.” Strange words coming from A/P preachers - who actually meant them - in love,compassion and concern!

But, these pastors aren’t very spiritual men in the modern American church way, they were not socially pragmatic or spiritually practical, they only wanted what was best for the saint of God. What a novel concept!

-------------------

Alright, I do apologize for preaching down to everyone here. But, I do so for only one reason, to shake us all from our parochial attitudes for a moment, so we might see how our seemingly important differences and profound theological discussions really fit into the kingdom of God/heaven worldview. Our modern-day churches have become more obsessed with power, money, influence and feeding our personal pride than with the things of God and what actually matters to Him. Mt 23 seems an appropriate passage to reference, with Lk 18:9-14 added just for good measure.

Shalom Aleichem
Peace be Unto You