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Old 12-06-2008, 11:20 PM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Re: WHAAT!! Clarence Thomas Push 4 Probe Against O

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Originally Posted by RevDWW View Post
It's as simple as that.
Isn't that an over simplification?

Whether he has a legitimate right to be President or not he has already been elected.
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:32 AM
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Re: WHAAT!! Clarence Thomas Push 4 Probe Against O

This is an interesting explanation of Obama's citizenship:

FactCheck.org
Quote:
In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.

Obama's British citizenship was short-lived. On Dec. 12, 1963, Kenya formally gained its independence from the United Kingdom. Chapter VI, Section 87 of the Kenyan Constitution specifies that:

1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963...

2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.

As a citizen of the UKC who was born in Kenya, Obama's father automatically received Kenyan citizenship via subsection (1). So given that Obama qualified for citizen of the UKC status at birth and given that Obama's father became a Kenyan citizen via subsection (1), it follows that Obama did in fact have Kenyan citizenship after 1963. So The Rocky Mountain News was at least partially correct.

But the paper failed to note that the Kenyan Constitution prohibits dual citizenship for adults. Kenya recognizes dual citizenship for children, but Kenya's Constitution specifies that at age 21, Kenyan citizens who possesses citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship and swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.
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Old 12-07-2008, 10:34 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Re: WHAAT!! Clarence Thomas Push 4 Probe Against O

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Originally Posted by TK Burk View Post
This is an interesting explanation of Obama's citizenship:

FactCheck.org

But the paper failed to note that the Kenyan Constitution prohibits dual citizenship for adults. Kenya recognizes dual citizenship for children, but Kenya's Constitution specifies that at age 21, Kenyan citizens who possesses citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship and swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.
But doesn't the US disallow anyone to have dual citizenship with any other country?
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Old 12-08-2008, 08:52 AM
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Re: WHAAT!! Clarence Thomas Push 4 Probe Against O

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Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne View Post
But doesn't the US disallow anyone to have dual citizenship with any other country?

No.

American law does not require that immigrants renounce their citizenship of their original country.

I have a cousin who I am almost positive is a citizen of Senegal, but I know she is an American still.
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Old 12-08-2008, 02:33 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Re: WHAAT!! Clarence Thomas Push 4 Probe Against O

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
No.

American law does not require that immigrants renounce their citizenship of their original country.

I have a cousin who I am almost positive is a citizen of Senegal, but I know she is an American still.
This does not hold true for anyone wishing to be President.

According to http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_US_p...al_citizenship

The Constitution contains the term "natural born" for a US president. This term was used to prevent anyone with the possibility of having a foreign allegiance from becoming commander-in-chief of US forces, for obvious reasons (super fifth column, anyone?) A person with dual citizenship owes allegiance to both the US and the foreign government. They are required to obey the laws of both countries, which of course for a sitting US President would be disastrous to the US nation.

The term "natural born" is used to mean a singular allegiance to one and only one nation. Dual citizenship contradicts this.

(Note that it is unique that the US president is also the commander-in-chief, which entrusts the office of president with great power, so a concern of allegiance was on the minds of the framers of the Constitution. Senators and Representatives can be naturalized; the President cannot, because of the Commander-In-Chief power.)

All NATURALIZED citizens have to take an oath of ALLEGIANCE, to confirm they only have allegiance to the US and no other country. But this is not enough to fully repudiate possible allegiances to other countries.
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:47 PM
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Re: WHAAT!! Clarence Thomas Push 4 Probe Against O

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Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Isn't that an over simplification?

Whether he has a legitimate right to be President or not he has already been elected.
It matters a great deal because if the Constitution doesn't matter; then nothing about being an American matters. NO RIGHT IS SECURE. Furthermore, Obama's deceit speaks volumes.

Please see the following response in response to the idea that 64 million votes ends the discussion....

[Note I edited the number of paragraphs for easier reading. LONG POST but worth reading for those that read long posts].

Posted by: hankrand // 20 hours ago // viewed 401 times
Cleveland, Ohio // embed media
Last updated: 20 hours ago
I came across a piece today by David Horowitz ( http://hnn.us/roundup/comments/57846.html) that, without blinking, lends more credence to the growing "So what" trend that has driven our country's demise in to complacency for decades. And I understand that Mr. Horowitz would not be considered a "ferocious" Obama supporter; still, however, his talk track suggests otherwise. This particular "So what", related to Barack Obama's potentially having defrauded his way in to power. Horowitz asks, "What difference does it make to the future of this country whether Obama was born on US soil? Advocates of this destructive campaign will argue that the Constitutional principle regarding the qualifications for President trumps all others. But how viable will our Constitution be if 5 Supreme Court justices should decide to void 64 million ballots?"

Here is my response....

A proponent of the reality that there is an outstanding question that exists relating to Barack Obama's natural born citizenship (not that I have an answer, but rather, simply, that no answer has been given), my personal opinion is that this has less to do with the merit of a particular Constitutional law...and more to do with the character and integrity of a man who may have gone to such great lengths to, knowingly, break it. And of far greater consequence to all constituents, in 2008 and beyond, in that course of action, our entire country (not just those who didn't vote for him) and our most coveted process of Democracy (our vote), were defrauded.

If he's found to be ineligible per the Constitution, proving he knowingly and willfully defrauded our people and process, it won't be the Justices who will have disenfranchised 64 million voters. It' will be Barack Obama. How many times are you prepared to claim "you fell down the stairs" for this man?

I was an initial supporter. I started seeing very real and very questionable issues raised about the nature of his past associations, and the laughable explanations he would give to dumb down credence...and I was sure it would hurt him in the press and among supporters.

But what did I see? The press and most supporters, too engrossed in their partisanship to care. In fact, the more reasonable questions came up about him...the harder the press and the 64 million that same press brainwashed, drove to the hoop for him. As I stood back watching this, again, as an initial supporter of his, even making phone calls on his behalf...I realized what I was seeing, was nothing short of WEIRD. Just, plain, weird.

And I thought this birth certificate issue (check that, "Certificate of Live Birth" issue...as opposed to "Certification of Live Birth") was cleared up a long time ago. I thought there was no way the DNC would have been capable of such a gross oversight.

I thought surely Barack Obama would go to whatever extraordinarily basic lengths necessary to debunk it. But reasonable, grounded, public requests went unanswered. Then the court cases came up, and nothing was done to quell the question....which despite wide-spread rumor by our press and his supporters, was not quelled with the "Certification" of Live Birth he posted on his site, or any of the other 4 half-truth refutations that were offered up to what has become an increasingly misinformed Nation. (See, "Small Price to Pay for Unity", also here at ireport).

"You're mincing words Hank. 'Certificate.' 'Certification.' What's the big deal?" Yes, I am mincing words. And I'm doing that, because I have room to. That's the neat thing about truth: when you have it, there is no room to toy with semantics or any other hypotheses. We still don't know the truth, and that's incredible...because it would be so easy for Barack Obama to give us.

But what finally landed me concerned that something is not right, was when Chiyome Fukino, Director of Health for Hawaii, released the statement about his birth. That statement actually did more harm than good (for all Obama-intensive purposes), and it only demonstrated further how moronic far too many public officials and people in the media and governing bodies, think Americans are.

No matter how many times the press dices the 4 sentence statement (see Jack Tapper's piece in which, rather than ply the misinformation himself, he decides to cite from another source), the statement still, in a pointed effort to respond to questions about his natural born status, failed to broach even the surface of the issue. (Also more clearly articulated in "Small Price to Pay for Unity".)

I digress. I just can't bring myself to touch any of this, without doing everything I can to, if nothing else, make sure those who still operate with independent thought, are afforded the opportunity to do so....specifically independently of what the press has become all-too-comfortable, quite literally, lying to us about.

Continued---
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