Ultra Conservatives 'Go Hollywood'

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I think TerryG should talk to LB himself. Or maybe someone should email him his post from here???

I heard of a pastor once, who, whenever someone came to him and started talking of another's faults or failures, would hand the person a piece of paper and request that everything be put in writing with a signature and date. That stopped the tale bearing and accusations to the pastor.

[Theresa]

where does it say that God is opposed to folks being rich?

He just said it's harder for a rich man to make it in the kingdom...and he did minister to the poor and so forth..but never did I see him say it was WRONG to be rich.

In fact, in the OT, there were many times he encouraged the Children of Israel to take the spoils of war for their own....sometimes he told them to leave it...

But there were rich people in the bible, he gave them land..etc.

He didnt say it was WRONG to be rich - how you live you life is what can make it WRONG>

You can be wrong making several million a year vs. 15K a year - if you are not paying your tithes and supporting the work of God and not being a provider for your family, it doesnt matter how much money you have and waste - it's wrong.

But being rich isnt wrong just like being poor isnt some badge of honor for being a child of god.

[MomOfADramaQn]

Look at Christ's life - if we strive to be as Christ then we should NOT live extravagantly. Take that money and use it to feed to the hungry, help the widows, help the orphans. Yes - it happens more than just in the WPF but because of the way WPF left the UPC (by the way I am not UPC or WPF thank GOD!) they set themselves up for scrutiny as this.

[Theresa]

Originally Posted by MomOfADramaQn

Look at Christ's life - if we strive to be as Christ then we should NOT live extravagantly. Take that money and use it to feed to the hungry, help the widows, help the orphans. Yes - it happens more than just in the WPF but because of the way WPF left the UPC (by the way I am not UPC or WPF thank GOD!) they set themselves up for scrutiny as this.

he suddenly got wealthy after leaving the UPC??

who says he doesnt do those things?

[MomOfADramaQn]

Originally Posted by Theresa

he suddenly got wealthy after leaving the UPC??

who says he doesnt do those things?

I don't know anything about LB - I DO NOT follow religious politics. Organized religion is man-made so it definitely has it many flaws. If I did follow the politics of organized religion I would probably be an atheist - I am just saying in general I do not think God is pleased with extravagant lifestyles. I don't care if it is UPC, WPF, AA or whatever else there is out there.

[MissBrattified]

It's always easy to judge how someone else spends their money.

I think we should each make sure that we balance our income with generosity, and if there's some left over--take the kids to Disneyland--and fly first class.

Just in regard to this thread, I'm not willing to take the word of a stranger about LB, and even if they were all true, it's not our place to call LB into account. I think that he can answer to God for how he handles his money. I DO believe in living within our means, supporting the church and evangelism, and being generous in other ways. But there's no way to know what LB's personal money habits are with some kind of hear-say account. It's completely unreliable information.

[Theresa]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

It's always easy to judge how someone else spends their money.

I think we should each make sure that we balance our income with generosity, and if there's some left over--take the kids to Disneyland--and fly first class.

Just in regard to this thread, I'm not willing to take the word of a stranger about LB, and even if they were all true, it's not our place to call LB into account. I think that he can answer to God for how he handles his money. I DO believe in living within our means, supporting the church and evangelism, and being generous in other ways. But there's no way to know what LB's personal money habits are with some kind of hear-say account. It's completely unreliable information.

I think the speculation about LB is just retarded.

but I bet he wouldnt wear lemongrass with sage shoes!!!

[Aquila]

The following verse says something that got me thinking...

II Thessalonians 3:6-10
6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
7For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
8Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
9Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
10For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Is there a point when it becomes a bad example to live a certain way before the congregation? Is there a point when living off the congregation becomes unethical? I know a pastor who really made his own ours and provided quite a bit of down time throughout the day. I remember going out to lunch with him on one of my days off. I told him I'd pick up the bill and he said that the church would pay for it because it was church business. I inquired as to what he meant, and he stated that he could classify the meeting as "visitation" with me or give a card to the waitress and call it "witnessing". Was he "working" or was he abusing his authority?

Could it be said that many pastors don't deserve to eat?

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Is there a point when it becomes a bad example to live a certain way before the congregation? Is there a point when living off the congregation becomes unethical? I know a pastor who really made his own ours and provided quite a bit of down time throughout the day. I remember going out to lunch with him on one of my days off. I told him I'd pick up the bill and he said that the church would pay for it because it was church business. I inquired as to what he meant, and he stated that he could classify the meeting as "visitation" with me or give a card to the waitress and call it "witnessing". Was he "working" or was he abusing his authority?

Could it be said that many pastors don't deserve to eat?

Again, I am not against wealth or the wealthy. I have ALWAYS despised the taxation that many of the rich have to endure -even though I will never be in their tax bracket. I am not against people having nice things and nice cars and nice cloths.....

But ANY organization that exists by receiving it's funds in the form of donations DOES have an extra burden in explaining to to the givers how and where the money is spent. Would United Way donations drop off if the tax forms for the head honcho's in each state were released? Would people stop dropping dollar bills into the Salvation Army buckets if it was revealed that the Captain was making a quarter million a year?

Is this why so many pastors react so violently when the concept of the tithe is challenged? Even by people who may out give tithe payers in the form of offerings, yet still CALL it offerings? (After all 'offerings' are free will and 'tithes' are mandatory which in many minds removes all rights of the tithes payer to know where the money goes.)

[Cookin-with-Stoneking]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Again, I am not against wealth or the wealthy. I have ALWAYS despised the taxation that many of the rich have to endure -even though I will never be in their tax bracket. I am not against people having nice things and nice cars and nice cloths.....

But ANY organization that exists by receiving it's funds in the form of donations DOES have an extra burden in explaining to to the givers how and where the money is spent. Would United Way donations drop off if the tax forms for the head honcho's in each state were released? Would people stop dropping dollar bills into the Salvation Army buckets if it was revealed that the Captain was making a quarter million a year?

Is this why so many pastors react so violently when the concept of the tithe is challenged? Even by people who may out give tithe payers in the form of offerings, yet still CALL it offerings? (After all 'offerings' are free will and 'tithes' are mandatory which in many minds removes all rights of the tithes payer to know where the money goes.)

If it wasn't for the legal obligation then there would be no reporting period, yes I understand the sensitivity around giving and the obvious misues of funds by nefarious ministries, but God has designated the tithe to be means and way that ministers get their keep.

A minister sows spiritual things, and he should reap carnal benefits in the form of giving by those that he feeds spiritual things to.

While I think that a church should report in general terms via a budget statement with spending categories it is no business of every member of the church what the Pastor does with his check.