I refuse to remove the landmarks - Page 5

Praxeas · #1 03-04-2009, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhoutreach

I would totally agree that the dress standards (holiness ) from the 1840,1940 or 50's . They are much older than that. However a women can dress like a women, in dresses and skirts and still look fashionable. A man can look like a man and still look trendy. Then biggest problem is that teaching on this subject has been harsh and hurtful in the past.

I agree with every thing you mentioned as landmarks. But we can not leave off ones we do not like.

GOD BLESS

fashionable? Trendy? Some that set up those landmarks would say that is worldly talk

Sam · #2 03-03-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhoutreach

Prov 22:28
28 Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.

I find it interesting that many after being blessed by finding the Truth, begin to seek ways to change what they have received.

Men and women before us understood the strength in Holiness, both inside and out. They were wise enough to know that the NEW BIRTH experience was just the beginning. Men were to dress like men and women like women. Because this was right in the eyes to the LORD. And still is. Men and women were to dress modestly and still should. Uncut hair on a women was her covering and showed her submission to her head and long hair on a man was a shame and still is.

Just because culture changes it's view does not mean the church should or that GOD has.

I am progressive in the sense that I believe we should change our methods for reaching the world in need. I am an old time preacher in the sense that I do not believe we should ever change our MESSAGE, any of it.

Bro. Howard Goss received the Holy Ghost Baptism in the early 1900's. The book The Winds of God was written by Ethel Goss and is about the early Pentecostal movement (1901-1914) in the life of her husband Howard A. Goss.The copyright date is 1958. This book is available from the Pentecostal Publishing House.

Howard Goss was, and is, considered a pioneer and a hero by quite a few people in the Pentecostal movement although many today would have no idea who he was.

In the early years of the Pentecostal movement a group of workers would go into an area and preach. They would go with no church invitation and no financial backing. They felt like they had a message to preach and that God would supply their needs. Their message was salvation, sanctification, healing, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It was called the Apostolic Faith even though it had nothing to do with later teaching on Oneness and baptism in Jesus' Name. Later it would be referred to by some as Full Gospel. Some times they could afford a building to hold meetings in and some times even a separate place to stay. Finances and food came in by the grace of God.

On page 69 of the book he talks about the way they dressed which is in marked contrast to the way some of the preachers preach about standards, clothing, jewelry, etc today. Years ago we used to refer to this as "clothes line preaching." Now I guess it's just considered preaching on standards.

"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

pelathais · #3 03-03-2009, 10:07 PM

Demanding upon the Victorian standard for the placement of a woman's inseam seems to be a silly preoccupation to me. What of the "holiness" people in the 1800's who complained about the styles that were current then and longed for their own "old landmarks?"

The statement you cite in Proverbs involved respecting another man's fields and inheritance. Another verse just a bit further: Proverbs 23:10, clearly shows that the landmark was to keep people from stealing land and crops from those who were weaker than they. Job 24:2 echoes this same concern.

So when we look at the history of the Apostolic Faith movement and see that history being rewritten as it is here, or being covered up and even just forgotten - how should we respond?

When some one says - The Bogomils and Albigensians were One God tongue talking people - they are removing important and very old landmarks.

When they airbrush out Sister Morgan's discrete pearl necklace from the pictures at UPC HQ - they are removing our landmarks.

When they hide the facts about the true teachings and writings of men like A.D Urshan, Howard Goss, John Dearing, Frank Ewart and so many others - they are removing the old landmarks.

Sam · #4 03-03-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

...
So when we look at the history of the Apostolic Faith movement and see that history being rewritten as it is here, or being covered up and even just forgotten - how should we respond?

When some one says - The Bogomils and Albigensians were One God tongue talking people - they are removing important and very old landmarks.

When they airbrush out Sister Morgan's discrete pearl necklace from the pictures at UPC HQ - they are removing our landmarks.

When they hide the facts about the true teachings and writings of men like A.D Urshan, Howard Goss, John Dearing, Frank Ewart and so many others - they are removing the old landmarks.

Careful now, you're being too realistic.

YEPhesMycousin · #5 03-03-2009, 10:09 PM

bh, this forum truly is no place for this discussion because they will slam you to kingdom come and say they are being Christlike about it. I was a lurker long before I joined.

I too believe in holding to the old paths, but even when I have seen people write personal testimonies of their own convictions I have seen the people on here tell them that what they experienced was not real.

For example, myself.....when I was 13 I trimmed my hair and God lifted the anointing from me for 1 year. When I would sing, there was no anointing. Now, someone on here will say that is not true as though I don't know my own relationship with God and don't really know what happened to me. Sad.

Anyways, I am with ya bro. I have had too many friends who walked away from exterior consecration and they have lost their anointing. I will not argue the point with ANYONE!

Sherri · #6 03-03-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YEPhesMycousin

bh, this forum truly is no place for this discussion because they will slam you to kingdom come and say they are being Christlike about it. I was a lurker long before I joined.

I too believe in holding to the old paths, but even when I have seen people write personal testimonies of their own convictions I have seen the people on here tell them that what they experienced was not real.

For example, myself.....when I was 13 I trimmed my hair and God lifted the anointing from me for 1 year. When I would sing, there was no anointing. Now, someone on here will say that is not true as though I don't know my own relationship with God and don't really know what happened to me. Sad.

Anyways, I am with ya bro. I have had too many friends who walked away from exterior consecration and they have lost their anointing. I will not argue the point with ANYONE!

I won't argue it with anyone either. AND I don't doubt your story. I believe that God requires things from some of us that He doesn't require from others. There are convictions that I have that I will not change, no matter what all my ministry friends do.

I think the whole issue on here is that we would like to be considered brothers and sisters. We are willing to accept you as brothers/sisters, and would just like to feel that you accept us too. We love the Lord every bit as much as you do.

bhoutreach · #7 03-03-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YEPhesMycousin

bh, this forum truly is no place for this discussion because they will slam you to kingdom come and say they are being Christlike about it. I was a lurker long before I joined.

I too believe in holding to the old paths, but even when I have seen people write personal testimonies of their own convictions I have seen the people on here tell them that what they experienced was not real.

For example, myself.....when I was 13 I trimmed my hair and God lifted the anointing from me for 1 year. When I would sing, there was no anointing. Now, someone on here will say that is not true as though I don't know my own relationship with God and don't really know what happened to me. Sad.

Anyways, I am with ya bro. I have had too many friends who walked away from exterior consecration and they have lost their anointing. I will not argue the point with ANYONE!

Glad to find a couple that agree with me. I suspected this was not the forum for this topic. That is why I started it. I want to see where the majority was.

YEPhesMycousin · #8 03-03-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhoutreach

Glad to find a couple that agree with me. I suspected this was not the forum for this topic. That is why I started it. I want to see where the majority was.

The majority from what I've seen is LIBERAL.

There was one obnoxious guy who they banned. Glad he's gone. Don't even know why he called himself a Christian. He was crude and mean about everything.

Neck · #9 03-03-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhoutreach

Glad to find a couple that agree with me. I suspected this was not the forum for this topic. That is why I started it. I want to see where the majority was.

Too many sitting in churches today there is no forum.

There are no open conversations.

Aquila · #10 03-03-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YEPhesMycousin

bh, this forum truly is no place for this discussion because they will slam you to kingdom come and say they are being Christlike about it. I was a lurker long before I joined.

I too believe in holding to the old paths, but even when I have seen people write personal testimonies of their own convictions I have seen the people on here tell them that what they experienced was not real.

For example, myself.....when I was 13 I trimmed my hair and God lifted the anointing from me for 1 year. When I would sing, there was no anointing. Now, someone on here will say that is not true as though I don't know my own relationship with God and don't really know what happened to me. Sad.

Anyways, I am with ya bro. I have had too many friends who walked away from exterior consecration and they have lost their anointing. I will not argue the point with ANYONE!

Jesus said, "According to your faith so be it unto you."

I sincerely believe that we often place our faith on various things. Sometimes those are external standards. If our faith is rooted in these things due to teaching or personal conviction from self study, one can loose their anointing if their own heart begins to condemn them for what they've done...even if it's not a sin. Many who have studied the occult can tell you that witches also believe that spiritual anointing, or power, is in their hair...they often wear their hair long, straight, and uncut. In fact sometimes it's used in pagan rituals. They also wear long skirts and maintain a "natural" appearance. For example:

http://www.ahighersourcesupply.com/images/julia4.jpg

These witches often claim that their "anointing" wanes if their hair is cut or their appearance isn't all "natural". Here's a disturbing thought...what if some of our "Pentecostal traditions" are mistaken encroachments of witchcraft? We base much of our faith on them, and naturally if they are interfered with our faith is cut short...and the resulting lack of faith would bring lack of anointing.

I knew a man who sincerely believed that he shouldn't read National Geographic Magazine because of some of the pictures depicting unclothed tribal women. Well, one day he picked one up in a doctor's office and read an article about Tsunamis. Later that evening at church he was called on to lead prayer. His prayer was unsteady, broken, and un-anointed. He confessed to me that it was because he had read a National Geographic. I laughed and then he got VERY serious with me. I couldn't believe my ears...he actually believed that he had lost anointing because he read a National Geo. I looked at him thinking, "It's because your own heart is condemning you and weakening your faith." Is faith was in his performance and not in Jesus. If we put our faith in our appearance and not in Jesus...if that appearance doesn't line up...we loose faith and anointing.

Oh well...I'm sure you get the picture. I could be wrong. Just sharing some thoughts.