Deltaguitar-Salvation Requires More Than Faith!

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Is it your faith that makes Jesus Christ work at the cross effective in our lives for salvation or is it Jesus Christ giving himself on the cross which purchased us and gave us the gift of saving faith along with repentance? This is not a trick question but it is something that I have been thinking about lately.

Deltaquitar and others,

When you read my post, please read its entirety, without skipping any sentences.



Faith without obedience voids the "cause" at the cross.

It's in our obedience that we obtain salvation. James states "faith without works is dead." If your faith is genuine, your faith's fruits will be evidentiary. I purport two faiths, one absent of works while the other is accompanied by works/manifestations. James states, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." The authentication (i.e. works, faith) of those devils believing is their trembling.


Another beautiful example of what I'm trying to convey is found in James 2:15-17. If your brother/sister is naked and hungered, and at their departure you say "depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled", and you fail to cloth or feed them, where is the sincerity in your faith of your brother/sister's well being? Your faith alone isn't enough unless it's accompanied by obedience, which is the same message the entire second chapter of James is conveying.


To acknowledge Jesus as your Lord, that requires more than a confession of Him being your master. To accept Him as your master, you must obey and submit to his rules and authority.



To understand what I'm about to state doesn't require a Theology degree. What is required is basic comprehension.



Delta here's something interesting for you to ponder. Read Roman 6:3-11, there it speaks of water baptism and its symbolism.


According to Romans 6:3-11, when we are water baptized, we are:
baptized into His death -Romans 6:3
buried with Him -Romans 6:4
raised with Him -Romans 6:4
united with Him in His resurrection -Romans 6:5
crucified with Him -Romans 6:6
no longer slaves to sin -Romans 6:7
free from sin -Romans 6:7
we will live with Him -Romans 6:8
dead to sin -Romans 6:11
alive to God -Romans 6:11


This would conclude that when we are NOT WATER BAPTIZED, we are:
NOT baptized into His death -Romans 6:3
NOT buried with Him -Romans 6:4
NOT raised with Him -Romans 6:4
NOT united with Him in His resurrection -Romans 6:5
NOT crucified with Him -Romans 6:6
STILL slaves to sin -Romans 6:7
NOT free from sin -Romans 6:7
NOT live with Him -Romans 6:8
NOT dead to sin -Romans 6:11
NOT alive to God -Romans 6:11


You can't argue with simple interpretation of scripture. Baptism is necessary! For this reason Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" Mark 16:16

[n david]

Wow! Great post 1Corinth2v4!

[KWSS1976]

So how do you explain the thief on the cross and death bed repentence as I have heard it called where is the obedience in this? The thief did not offer up a sacrifice to have his sins rolled back a year... I think faith has alot more to do with salvation then some want to believe

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

So how do you explain the thief on the cross and death bed repentence as I have heard it called where is the obedience in this? The thief did not offer up a sacrifice to have his sins rolled back a year... I think faith has alot more to do with salvation then some want to believe

KWSS,

I already addressed that issue. Salvation in the New Testament also requires one to believe that God raised Jesus from death (Romans 10:9) The thief couldn't have been saved under the new dispensation because Jesus hadn't yet died. Furthermore, Jesus was the last sacrificial sin offering in the Old Testament, thus transferring the thief's sins upon Himself.

Regarding death bed repepntance, comapare that to Romans 6:3-11. Without water baptism, the death bed repenter is:

NOT baptized into His death -Romans 6:3
NOT buried with Him -Romans 6:4
NOT raised with Him -Romans 6:4
NOT united with Him in His resurrection -Romans 6:5
NOT crucified with Him -Romans 6:6
STILL slaves to sin -Romans 6:7
NOT free from sin -Romans 6:7
NOT live with Him -Romans 6:8
NOT dead to sin -Romans 6:11
NOT alive to God -Romans 6:11

[Jack Shephard]

Waste of words....most of us believe what we do and nothing but God Himself would change that.

[n david]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Waste of words....most of us believe what we do and nothing but God Himself would change that.

I wouldn't call it a waste of words. It's not as though this was presented without scripture as part of a simple commentary, it wasn't. This has scripture to back it up.

[KWSS1976]

Well 1corith I will have to say that atleast one apostolic preacher would disagree with ya cause we had a good sunday school lesson yesterday on gods saving (GRACE)

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Waste of words....most of us believe what we do and nothing but God Himself would change that.

1 Corinthians 1:21-23

21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Well 1corith I will have to say that atleast one apostolic preacher would disagree with ya cause we had a good sunday school lesson yesterday on gods saving (GRACE)

Is this man your pastor?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

Deltaquitar and others,

When you read my post, please read its entirety, without skipping any sentences.
...

I'm not DeltaGuitar and I skipped most of the sentences but I am still well qualified to respond.

You'll get no argument from me about human responsibility to the Gospel's call. We are to respond in faith to the works that Jesus Christ has already performed for us.

You will notice the following when you read Romans 6:3-11:

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Romans 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Romans 6:8
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Romans 6:9
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Romans 6:10
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Notice that everything a Christian might do with regard to baptism is a mere reflection of the works that Christ has already done for us.

Thus, the most important thing about your repentance was not your own sorrow (though it was important). The most important thing about your repentance was that Christ had already died for your sins.

When you were "buried" in baptism with Christ the most impostant thing was not that you got wet (though you obviously got wet). The most important thing was that Christ had already been buried in a grave on your behalf.

When you rose to newness of life, the most important thing wasn't your shirt sleeves or your hem line (though modesty is important). The most important thing was that Jesus Christ had already defeated death, hell and the grave!