This is war, or did you forget. If we do bring any of them over here let's put them in your's and Mike's neighborhood, you both defend them so well.
List to me and listen closely.....
If an individual is indeed proven guilty of a terrorist act or of being a military enemy I support their detainment. However...if they haven't been proven guilty of anything through due process it is an affront to the very liberties our founders believed in, God given human rights, and all that is holy to detain them. It's an issue of liberty and human rights. Maybe we should detain you illegally and see if you think differently six years from now. You either love liberty for all men...or you're a tyrant. Take your pick.
If an individual is indeed proven guilty of a terrorist act or of being a military enemy I support their detainment. However...if they haven't been proven guilty of anything through due process it is an affront to the very liberties our founders believed in, God given human rights, and all that is holy to detain them. It's an issue of liberty and human rights. Maybe we should detain you illegally and see if you think differently six years from now. You either love liberty for all men...or you're a tyrant. Take your pick.
Were you in the military? I was.
I know some men I am glad are not at liberty. And I am not a tyrant.
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Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
I know some men I am glad are not at liberty. And I am not a tyrant.
We all know some men that deserve to be incarcerated. However, this is America...not your fascist little dictatorship. Here's the deal...we operate according to principles that uphold and protect human rights. Our founders saw illegal arrest, detainment, searches, seizures, and quartering an affront to God given liberties. The majority of those detain haven't had their day in court...they've not had due process to prove their guilt. Frankly but detaining them illegally your regime ensured that those deserving detainment be set free...because after all this time we can't prove anything. Thank you oh great right winger.
If an individual is indeed proven guilty of a terrorist act or of being a military enemy I support their detainment. However...if they haven't been proven guilty of anything through due process it is an affront to the very liberties our founders believed in, God given human rights, and all that is holy to detain them. It's an issue of liberty and human rights. Maybe we should detain you illegally and see if you think differently six years from now. You either love liberty for all men...or you're a tyrant. Take your pick.
Were you in the military? I was.
Exactly.
Some of you guys like Soun and RevDw, believe that it's our right to imprison people without any chance of ever giving them a trial. I find that in opposition to everything this country has fought and stood for. You certainly don't stand on any legal or ethical high ground.
Why in the world are we afraid to bring them to trial and either prove their guilt or turn them loose? I'm not advocating turning them lose, I'm advocating bringing them to justice.
God spare us the day, where the USA stands for imprisoning people without any intent of ever giving them a fair trial and then the proper consequences either way.
It's this type of NeoCon Republican bull that got the Republican party thrashed in November.
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In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Augustine
Some of you guys like Soun and RevDw, believe that it's our right to imprison people without any chance of ever giving them a trial. I find that in opposition to everything this country has fought and stood for. You certainly don't stand on any legal or ethical high ground.
Why in the world are we afraid to bring them to trial and either prove their guilt or turn them loose? I'm not advocating turning them lose, I'm advocating bringing them to justice.
God spare us the day, where the USA stands for imprisoning people without any intent of ever giving them a fair trial and then the proper consequences either way.
It's this type of NeoCon Republican bull that got the Republican party thrashed in November.
Where have I ever said that? I too believe that should be tried by military tribunal, according to the Geneva convention. And those where finally going forward but where stopped by President Obama.
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Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
Where have I ever said that? I too believe that should be tried by military tribunal, according to the Geneva convention. And those where finally going forward but where stopped by President Obama.
Yes...Bush finally began moving that direction because it was making the Party look bad...he didn't give a rip about America or our principles.
Secondly, most of these are not soldiers. The Geneva Convention authorizes military tribunals for prisoners of war if they are legitimate military soldiers. Most of these are "citizens" of Iraq or Afghanistan. Most were not official military forces of any nation under the Geneva Convention. Therefore they must be treated as civilian suspects....that requires legal due process in a court of law...not a military tribunal. For example, if we were in Vietnam and took 10 Vietnamese Regulars prisoner, we could try them by military tribunal. If we took civilian Mamma San or any other civilian prisoner we'd have to hand them over to the legal civilian authorities and bring formal charges against them.
By taking and holding these individuals illegally without amassing evidence...we weakened, if not devastated, the chances of actually being able to detain the real bad guys.
This whole thing is another testimony to the Bush Administration's incompetence.
Where have I ever said that? I too believe that should be tried by military tribunal, according to the Geneva convention. And those where finally going forward but where stopped by President Obama.
Nothing new here. It is hard to go to yemen annd Iraq and gather witnesses and evidence for a fair trial. Obviously the exposure of informants in the caourt case is even more peroblematic. The free the thugs bunch is not a bunch of thinkers.
God spare us the day, where the USA stands for imprisoning people without any intent of ever giving them a fair trial and then the proper consequences either way.
It's this type of NeoCon Republican bull that got the Republican party thrashed in November.
Welcome to the America these extremists have created. But beware...the Democrats aren't going to do any better. They'll take it further...then the next right wing Republican Administration will take it yet further. They only care about party victory...they don't give a blankety blank about our country. The mindlessly blind ideologues on both sides are full blooded traitors unworthy of the very title...American.
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Re: Impeach Obama....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
List to me and listen closely.....
If an individual is indeed proven guilty of a terrorist act or of being a military enemy I support their detainment. However...if they haven't been proven guilty of anything through due process it is an affront to the very liberties our founders believed in, God given human rights, and all that is holy to detain them. It's an issue of liberty and human rights. Maybe we should detain you illegally and see if you think differently six years from now. You either love liberty for all men...or you're a tyrant. Take your pick.
Were you in the military? I was.
These are not Americans to be protected by our liberties they are prisoners of a war started by those who killed over 3,000 innocent people.
Yes I was in the military for 5 years. I'm a disabled Korean vet and proud of it!
I didn't serve for the freedom of the Muslims but the freedom of the American people.
These are not Americans to be protected by our liberties they are prisoners of a war started by those who killed over 3,000 innocent people.
Yes I was in the military for 5 years. I'm a disabled Korean vet and proud of it!
I didn't serve for the freedom of the Muslims but the freedom of the American people.
Well then, I'd expect you to know better. You see, there's a fundamental disconnect between you and me. You think that our liberties are provided by the Government and since they are not American citizens their liberties don't matter. I hate to inform you...but our founders explicitly taught us the opposite. Our liberties are NOT provided by Government. Our liberties are God given...and God given liberties are for all men regardless of citizenship.
Secondly, most of these are not "Taliban" or "al Queda". Most are Iraqis from various factions and groups who wanted hegemony in Iraq. I know the conservative mind has a short memory and struggles with differentiation...but Iraq never attacked us. Al Queda backed by the Taliban attacked us. Iraq was a war of choice. We expanded the war to include the Iraqis...the records show that while Al Queda was operating in Iraq, Saddam saw them as a threat to his power and was launching his own operations to suppress them. Saddam was a secularist who used religion as a tool....he highly distrusted Wahabbist Islam and the religious extremists.
*Interesting note here. Under Saddam things were bad...but things are regressing in Iraq. For example magistrates could be female under Saddam...not so now. Fundamentalist religious factions now have a say in the Iraqi government. My prediction....when we leave...rather in two years or 10 years...religious fundementalists will seize power using democracy. They will manipulate the people religiously to get their votes. Iraq will be a greater threat in 10 years than it ever was under Saddam's secularist socialist dictatorship.
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