The Removal of Romans 14:22

mfblume · #1 07-11-2009, 01:25 PM

Romans 14:21-22 KJV It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. (22) Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Romans 14:22 says that if there is something you truly see nothing wrong with, and it is not sin and it is not spoken against in the bible, then you can have liberty to enjoy it to yourself. In other words, do not do it around those who think it is sinful.

This does not condone sin of any kind, obviously. But there are things like certain standards that are not laid out in the bible that some believe are not required of God while others think they are.

I know folks in a church who have to sign a paper for membership now, that lists all the things they cannot do. The paper distinctly says that it does not matter where they are, they are told they cannot do these restrictions. Facial hair is mentioned, and even during the week when one is not around church, the men must always be clean shaven. Paul said just the opposite. If a person does not feel something is incorrect, then they are given the liberty to enjoy it so long as they do not do so around those who disagree with it.

Now, some may try to use this to condone sin, but also some may think something is a sin that is not said to be sin, and think others who disagree it is sin will use this verse to sin. The bottom line is that if one is sincere, and they prayerfully see no error in a thing, then simply enjoy it without the presence of those who do see error.

Romans 14:22 is removed from the lives of folks who have to sign such papers and agree to such conditions. They do not have the chance to fulfill that verse. Paul gave people this liberty that some churches are removing from people's lives.

Anyone else know what I mean?

jaxfam6 · #2 07-11-2009, 01:29 PM

i understand what you are saying

mfblume · #3 07-11-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

i understand what you are saying

What is your opinion of this issue?

I preached this once, and a woman came up to me after service and said she was just thinking that very week how she knows of no preachers who will preach that verse. She said they all avoid it. lol

*AQuietPlace* · #4 07-11-2009, 01:33 PM

I understand and agree.

But what about if someone from church sees you during the week with your stubble and is offended?

mfblume · #5 07-11-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I understand and agree.

But what about if someone from church sees you during the week with your stubble and is offended?

Good question.

I think intention is a point to consider. We cannot live in paranoia. We have not disobeyed scripture to refrain while around others who disagree if we did not intend such a thing to happen. Some things are unavoidable, and we simply must abandon them totally. But it can get to a choice of whether we want to be involved with some churches.

I also think the issue regards offending someone as to to actually offend. OFFEND means to actually cause to stumble, and move someone towards losing salvation.

Pressing-On · #6 07-11-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I also think the issue regards offending someone as to to actually offend. OFFEND means to actually cause to stumble, and move someone towards losing salvation.

Interesting. I made that same point on a previous thread some time back and no one agreed with me.

HopePreacher · #7 07-11-2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I understand and agree.

But what about if someone from church sees you during the week with your stubble and is offended?

I think we have bandied about this poor, abused word "offend" entirely too carelessly.

I was once wearing a simple tie pen to keep my tie from getting in the way and a pastor came up to me and said, "Brother, why don't you take that thing off, it offends me." That same man some time later ran off with a woman in the church. I hope it wasn't my tie pen that caused that.

The word translated offend is "skandalizo" and, you guessed, it, that is the word we get "scandal" from. It literally means to put a snare or stumblingblock in the way.

When it is used in the case of one who has taken offense it means that one has actually stumbled or fallen.

To put in context, if a person stumbled, or fell, because of my beard I would wonder about their foundation.

Now, if they didn't like it and if it made them angry to see me with a beard, but they didn't stumble over it, then I would have no obligation to them.

mfblume · #8 07-11-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Interesting. I made that same point on a previous thread some time back and no one agreed with me.

Well, I agree with you!

Pressing-On · #9 07-11-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Well, I agree with you!

Well, thank you! Where were you when I was being dogpiled?!!!

Pressing-On · #10 07-11-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HopePreacher

I think we have bandied about this poor, abused word "offend" entirely too carelessly.

I was once wearing a simple tie pen to keep my tie from getting in the way and a pastor came up to me and said, "Brother, why don't you take that thing off, it offends me." That same man some time later ran off with a woman in the church. I hope it wasn't my tie pen that caused that.

The word translated offend is "skandalizo" and, you guessed, it, that is the word we get "scandal" from. It literally means to put a snare or stumblingblock in the way.

When it is used in the case of one who has taken offense it means that one has actually stumbled or fallen.

To put in context, if a person stumbled, or fell, because of my beard I would wonder about their foundation.

Now, if they didn't like it and if it made them angry to see me with a beard, but they didn't stumble over it, then I would have no obligation to them.

Offense has two meanings - skandalon and skandalizo. In our terms it would be defined as scandal and scandalize.

Skandializo is used primarily as something we often come against - just being annoyed or slighted by someone.

Skandalon means a trigger of a trap that has bait placed on it. The animal will touch the bait and the trap springs. In the moral sense it is referring to an enticement to some conduct that will ruin a person. In Matthew 18:7 Jesus is concerned with the temptation or the enticement that will cause others to sin.

The Bible speaks in all of these verses of NOT being instrumental or having been instrumental in causing another to stumble and thereby fall into temptation and sin.