The Removal of Romans 14:22

Pressing-On · #1 07-11-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Well, I agree with you!

Well, thank you! Where were you when I was being dogpiled?!!!

mfblume · #2 07-11-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Well, thank you! Where were you when I was being dogpiled?!!!

lol

I was around some folks for a while who always said, "That offends me". Or "you oeffended me." They loved saying that. They took it so casually that I finally said, the bible tells us that if we love the Word of God, nothing will offend us. So they are only say they are spiritually immature. lol

Psalms 119:165 KJV Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Pressing-On · #3 07-11-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

lol

I was around some folks for a while who always said, "That offends me". Or "you oeffended me." They loved saying that. They took it so casually that I finally said, the bible tells us that if we love the Word of God, nothing will offend us. So they are only say they are spiritually immature. lol

Psalms 119:165 KJV Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

I love that scripture because it is in essence saying, "Great peace have they which love they law and nothing shall cause them to stumble."

Now, in Romans 14:22 ".....nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."

How do we reconcile Romans 14:22 with Psalms 119:165? It doesn't appear that Romans is conveying that the person that is weak or offended doesn't love God, but needs special care given in their circumstances.

Could you elaborate on that?

Sam · #4 07-11-2009, 02:01 PM

Quite a few years ago I belonged to an organization called The Church of Jesus Christ Pentecostal Faith. Our Presiding Bishop was G.R. Brock. He pastored a church in Indianapolis. He believed that a minister should always wear a neck tie and he based that on the Old Testament where it described how a priest should dress.

Bishop Brock visited a church in Kentucky pastored by Bro. Martin. Bro. Martin did not believe men should wear neckties. He considered them to be nothing more than useless adornment. At his request, Bishop Brock removed his necktie when he stood up on the platform behind the pulpit to preach. Bishop Brock said something about honoring the local pastor and obeying him. Then Bishop Brock turned to Bro. Martin and offered him an invitation to come to preach for him in Indianapolis. He then told Bro. Martin that he (Bishop Brock) required any man who preached for him to wear a necktie. He went on to inform Bro. Martin that he kept a necktie in the pulpit just in case a minister came along who didn't have one.

Does this comply with Romans 14?

mfblume · #5 07-11-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Quite a few years ago I belonged to an organization called The Church of Jesus Christ Pentecostal Faith. Our Presiding Bishop was G.R. Brock. He pastored a church in Indianapolis. He believed that a minister should always wear a neck tie and he based that on the Old Testament where it described how a priest should dress.

Bishop Brock visited a church in Kentucky pastored by Bro. Martin. Bro. Martin did not believe men should wear neckties. He considered them to be nothing more than useless adornment. At his request, Bishop Brock removed his necktie when he stood up on the platform behind the pulpit to preach. Bishop Brock said something about honoring the local pastor and obeying him. Then Bishop Brock turned to Bro. Martin and offered him an invitation to come to preach for him in Indianapolis. He then told Bro. Martin that he (Bishop Brock) required any man who preached for him to wear a necktie. He went on to inform Bro. Martin that he kept a necktie in the pulpit just in case a minister came along who didn't have one.

Does this comply with Romans 14?

I think so. A silly application, but still applicable.

Sam · #6 07-11-2009, 02:06 PM

I have always gone to churches (UPC and ALJC) and then later to a couple of other churches where the wearing of jewelry was not an issue. As a young minister I fellowshipped with and preached for ministers who were against the wearing of jewelry. I did not take off my wedding ring when I got on their platforms. Later, I decided to stop wearing my wedding ring just so it wouldn't be a possible offense. I went for several months not wearing my wedding ring. I don't know if any of those ministers even noticed that I was not wearing it so I later put it back on. The only person who was offended at this was my wife and she was offended that I was not wearing my wedding ring.

mfblume · #7 07-11-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I love that scripture because it is in essence saying, "Great peace have they which love they law and nothing shall cause them to stumble."

Now, in Romans 14:22 ".....nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."

How do we reconcile Romans 14:22 with Psalms 119:165? It doesn't appear that Romans is conveying that the person that is weak or offended doesn't love God, but needs special care given in their circumstances.

Could you elaborate on that?

Romans 15 gives the answer. There are some who are weak in the faith, and that the strong, who have strong faith and believe in more liberty, should bear the infirmities of the weak and stop doing what they feel they are at liberty to do. Jesus suffered for us when He did not have to.

Romans 15:1-7 KJV We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. (2) Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. (3) For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. (4) For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. (5) Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: (6) That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (7) Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

We are to consider those who are weak as easily offended. We cannot hurt them, or else we are hurting Christ. Being easily offended is a sign of immaturity and weak faith, but it is not a sign they do not love God. That is why we are told to have our liberty to ourselves and not around them..

Pressing-On · #8 07-11-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Romans 15 gives the answer. There are some who are weak in the faith, and that the strong, who have strong faith and believe in more liberty, should bear the infirmities of the weak and stop doing what they feel they are at liberty to do. Jesus suffered for us when He did not have to.

Romans 15:1-7 KJV We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. (2) Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. (3) For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. (4) For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. (5) Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: (6) That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (7) Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

We are to consider those who are weak as easily offended. We cannot hurt them, or else we are hurting Christ. Being easily offended is a sign of immaturity and weak faith, but it is not a sign they do not love God. That is why we are told to have our liberty to ourselves and not around them..

Do you think that a person could become weak in faith at intervals in their Christian walk due to very trying circumstances that surround a person?

mfblume · #9 07-11-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Do you think that a person could become weak in faith at intervals in their Christian walk due to very trying circumstances that surround a person?

Definitely.

Pressing-On · #10 07-11-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Definitely.

How do you reconcile Romans 14:22 with I Cor 10:13 "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

We are saying a person is weak or offended and therefore can fall away from salvation. How does that work with I Cor 10:13?