Gay Pastor's(xupc)recent Letter to the UPCI ! ! !

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I don't mean to sound mean or anything, but in all honesty most of the above is irrelevant to me. You stated earlier that you are willing to have a discussion I believe....based on scriptural evidences. Truth is not based on emotional appeal, nor on personal testimonies. Everyone has a personal testimony as to something they believe or some event that has occured, but it does not validate that belief though it might add an emotional impact to it.

Also, most homosexuals I have met were really bi-sexual, admitting to attraction to both sexes, though maybe not to the same degree. I do not believe God made you that way.

And I don't mean to be crude or even suggest what you are or do is worse than any other sin (not that you see it that way), but might a pedophile ask why God allowed him to be that way or become that way? There are perhaps many factors involved in everyone of us from the time we were children that might forever affect and shape our psyche to cause us to think a certain way or believe a certain way about our own selves. Do we ask "Why did God allow me to be this way"?

I was born a sinner...I was shapen in iniquity. Do I blame God or ask rhetorically why He allowed that to happen?

BTW I do not necessarily subcribe to the notion that just because someone has certain feelings that they are sinning. I have physical attractions to married women, but I do not believe I am condemned as an adulterer just for having that attraction. Nor do I speculate or believe that God made me or allowed me to be that way.

You indicated you are at the moment not involved with anyone...is that simply because you have not found someone or is that because you are trying to remain celibate for moral reasons?

Thank you

I would suggest that the majority of our doctrines are based on the emotional appeals and personal testimonies of Jesus, His disciples and Apostles. Emotion can never be removed from the human equation, though I was not using emotion to elicit any sort of sympathy from the readers here. I only wanted those writing and responding to understand who they were responding to. It's easy for humans to paint everyone we disagree with using the same paint brush. Not all homosexuals are like those presented in the media. I felt it was necessary for everyone to understand a little bit of my testimony in order to understand me. How can we become all things to all men if we claim knowing them is not important?

Also, we need to remember that pedophilia, adultery, rape, incest, etc. are directed within the sexual orientation of the one committing the act. Homosexual pedophiles molest children of their same sex while heterosexual pedophiles molest children of their opposite sex. Homosexual adulators commit adultery with individuals of their same sex while heterosexual adulators commit adultery with individuals of their opposite sex. Sexual orientation is most definitely a natural inclination and varies from person to person. Any abusive or illegal behavior which takes place within that person’s orientation is a completely different issue altogether.

I do not know how many homosexuals you actually know and have spoken with but I can tell you with absolute certainty that most homosexuals do not claim to be bisexual.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You are making some assumptions here that I do not see supported by your passage. Perhaps you should exegize it and the context for us. That someone can only be judged requires God to identify you as male or female was never a requirement that I can think of.

I don't know how else to put it. In order to be judged as "homosexual" God would have to see the biological sex (male/female) of those he is judging as homosexual. Having sexual relationships with a male is only homosexual in nature if it is being done by another male. Therefore, I suggest that if God does not see me as male or female how can he rightfully judge me as homosexual. An even greater question is, "how can he judge me as homosexual if I am not participating in a sexual relationship?"

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Hi Brad. Welcome to the forum.

I haven't read all of the posts on this thread, but I'd like to ask you, while you admit to being homosexual, do you believe that the lifestyle is an abomination to God, as the Bible says?

Thanks for the welcome.

We must clarify that "homosexual lifestyle" can be defined by several different behaviors and not everyone defines it the same. There are homosexuals who are in monogomous relationships and those that are not. There are homosexuals who attend church regularly and those who frequent the bars. There are homosexuals who are single and not even involved with someone sexually and those who sleep around on a regular basis. Many also think of the homosexual lifestyle as Pride Parades and Drag Shows. However, if homosexual lifestyle means being open about your sexual orientation being toward someone of the same gender I do not believe the homosexual lifestyle is an abomination.

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Brad,

I have a question for you...not trying to make you any more or less a sinner than anyone else who struggles with sexual issues, but I am curious as to; while participating in UPCI music ministries did you abstain from homosexual relationships for lack of opportunity or because you felt it a sin and wanted to please God?

This is something between you and God and you don't really have to answer if it is too personal.

Blessings, Rhoni

I abstained for neither reason. I had opportunity and I have felt reconciled with God for many years. I only abstained out of respect for my Pastors. For example, I do not feel having a television is a sin even though I have worked for Pastors that do. While ministering in their church I respected their views and adhered to them. This is what I did in regards to not participating in homosexual relationships while working for UPC churches.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Chan

I agree that God did not give the idolaters over to something "innocent" or even something that was otherwise not sinful. As for defilement of people's bodies, all sexual sin fits under that classification.

And the point is homosexuality is included and considered sexual sin.

[pastorsaint]

It is amazing to me the extent that folks will go to, to justify their lifestyles and behavior.

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Those things you mention here aren't listed as sins in the Bible. Homosexuality is.

First I would have to remind you that I do not believe the Bible lists homosexuality as a sin. There were definitely sinful homosexual acts prohibited in the OT but there were also sinful heterosexual acts prohibited in the OT. This prohibitions do not make the sexual orientation wrong but the behavior found withing the orientation.

Second, I would point out that menstruation is definitely a curse God placed on women. The OT Law said it was an abomination for a man to touch a woman during menstruation as well as for her to enter the city during menstruation.

Third, I was only responding to a comment made by someone earlier who was implying that the fact that God turning idolaters over to homosexuality proves that homosexuality is an abomination. My only point was that God has pronounced all sorts of judgements on people and the judgement he chooses cannot automatically be defined as abominable.

[pastorsaint]

I believe there were 10 virgins in the parable. They all had oil in their lamps, yet there were 5 that were not prepared for the bridegroom. We just have the personal responsibility to be ready. Someone once said" save them all and let God sort them out."

Originally Posted by mfblume

And the point is homosexuality is included and considered sexual sin.

I don't see where homosexuality is included as a sin at all. It is simply the punishment God gave them over to as a result of their disobedience and idolatry.

Originally Posted by brad2723

Thanks for the welcome.

We must clarify that "homosexual lifestyle" can be defined by several different behaviors and not everyone defines it the same. There are homosexuals who are in monogomous relationships and those that are not. There are homosexuals who attend church regularly and those who frequent the bars. There are homosexuals who are single and not even involved with someone sexually and those who sleep around on a regular basis. Many also think of the homosexual lifestyle as Pride Parades and Drag Shows. However, if homosexual lifestyle means being open about your sexual orientation being toward someone of the same gender I do not believe the homosexual lifestyle is an abomination.

Leviticus 18:22 KJV- Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Seems pretty plainly stated to me.