How much information should the saints expect from their pastor?

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And perhaps this has been a problem with the UPC as a whole movement....the have nots or the "are nots" are disenfranchised sheeple.

Oh please.

Call the ACLU.

[Coonskinner]

Now I've heard it all..."The Man" is still tryin' to keep me down!

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by josh

Perhaps I shouldn't speak for Coonskinner, but he was pastoring his church long before he was in the UPC. In other words, his church wasn't upc and therefore has no reason to wonder or worry what the upc is doing.

Just because he joined doesn't mean he abdicated his leadership to someone two or three states away...or that his church should be bound to or worried about some decision made by men ten states away.

Brother, I'm happy for you to speak for me.

But a point of clarification:

The church here was not affiliated when I accepted the pastorate. It still isn't.

I was licensed at the time, but went independent soon after, and remained that way for five or six years.

Our church bylaws do not stipulate anything about the pastor needing license.

We are an Apostolic church, and currently, I am a member of the UPC. If that ever changes, the church won't even feel a speed bump when I tell them.

We don't base our doctrine on a manual, but the Bible.

I really almost feel silly having to explain this.

I don't comprehend the mindset at all of justifying what I teach based on its being in the manual. If I were so ignorant as to do that, I could understand people feeling betrayed if that manual changed.

That's why I think I'll just stick with the Bible.

It won't up and change on me.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Imagine the ignorance of people whose beliefs and convictions change when an organization votes.

This is the quote of day.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

This is the quote of day.

Thanks for the kind words, Brother, but modesty demands that I remind you, the day is young, and who knows what gems may be revealed when the PCLU (Pentecostal Civil Liberties Union) comes on the scene?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

If I were a history or civics teacher that would bother me.

I am a preacher of the Gospel, not the organization's ambassador to my city. It isn't a desire for secrecy, just indifference and irrelevance that keeps me from talking that stuff.



Some might, but probably not most. You see, we were independent for years. I joined the UPC--they didn't. It is a fellowship of preachers.

The name UPC is nowhere on our sign or in our literature. I don't push that identity on them. We were what we were before I joined back up, and we will be what we are if i ever get out. It is irrelevant.

Their sense of connection and identity are with the men of God and churches we fellowship, not a building in Hazelwood.

I never set foot in a UPC church until I was 16, but had been Apostolic all my life.

That makes a difference in the way I view things, probably.

Honestly Carp, I have not had good reasons to have great trust in organizations. I appreciate the good things about the UPC, but that's not the rock I stand on.

Neither is it a signifigant portion of my identity or that of the church I am privileged to pastor. I like it that way.That way if the org goes off the rails, we aren't so much affected.

I cannot see how anyone can argue with these words. I've been part of an independent fellowship ever since I set a foot in an apostolic church. My pastor was never UPCI, the man who baptized me was not UPCI, and the first UPCI church I walked into was my wife's. Elder CS is presenting a reasonable argument that it is he who is in the UPCI (a preacher's fellowship and not made up of non-clergy) and not those who attend the church he ministers to.

How can one argue with his reasons to not broadcast what the organization is presenting to its preachers?


In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And perhaps this has been a problem with the UPC as a whole movement....the have nots or the "are nots" are disenfranchised sheeple.

Prax? The UPCI is a fellowship of ministers and not those who are not or don't want to be ministers. When you get water baptized in an UPCI church you're not handed a membership card. I cannot understand your argument with the Elder. Another thing, are you a card holding minister with the UPCI fellowship?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Thanks for the kind words, Brother, but modesty demands that I remind you, the day is young, and who knows what gems may be revealed when the PCLU (Pentecostal Civil Liberties Union) comes on the scene?

Then all you need to do Elder is quote them your Bertrand Russell quote that you have in your signature.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You mean pasted here? I agree why should they care what gets cut and pasted here.......

you're a brat--you always laugh at me and my mistakes!!!!

it would have been nice if you could have edited rather that point it out to world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

But imagine the shock of a person who believes they are UPC and believes certain things about the UPC only to find out several years later the UPC changed and your Pastor kept the news from you

A pastor has a right to pastor in way he which he "feels" God is leading him. What if he could care less what is PASSED, or believed by the UPC if he doesnt agree??

I am just giving an example here of what might be the pastors mind set, and all the while like you said, the people are thinking their church is in alignment of the rules of the UPC, I guess one should never assume!! Or get self educated.