Does Everyone Live Forever?

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The only thing I agree with here is that the righteous will be as the angels. One cannot base immortal soul belief on the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Not once is "soul" mentioned in the parable. Men have invented the idea the rich man soul was in Hell. It's not in the text.

I always considered it a parable. But if its speaking of what the judgment is like then maybe the earth and the sea had given up the dead that was in them and his body and spirit/soul was cast into the lake of fire.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

I always considered it a parable. But if its speaking of what the judgment is like then maybe the earth and the sea had given up the dead that was in them and his body and spirit/soul was cast into the lake of fire.

I see it that way.

He lifted up his eyes in Hades. That means he had been asleep in the grave. Upon awakening he finds himself in the lake of fire.

[TulsaDavid]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I see it that way.

He lifted up his eyes in Hades. That means he had been asleep in the grave. Upon awakening he finds himself in the lake of fire.

It's still not a parable, or else like Jesus' parables, it would have said such.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

My lands, if you have to ask, not realizing the rich man in hell was NOT a parable, not knowing that we will be as the angels, not knowing that the torment of those in the lake of fire is unceasing from the eons of eons, then we may not have much ground for discussion. I assume you realize these things. I also assume you realize that the definition of death of a soul is not nothingness, but eternal separation from life, as defined by scripture as eternal salvation. The lake of fire IS the second death. They inhabitants will be quite cognizant and in unceasing torture.

Don't you see how this impugns God's righteousness?

You have God, who is love, mercilessly, endlessly, intentionally, beyond all bounds and limitations of control, causing unceasing torture for eternity.

Even a lifetime of heinous sin only merits an equal judgment or verdict rendered against it. The punishment fits the crime. That is clear all throughout the Bible. Not all crimes or sins were of a capital offense nature. Jesus remarked about those ignorant of God's will who will receive less of a whipping than the ones who were cognizant of God's will.

And yet, in the resurrection of the unjust, God loses His mind and decides He is going to make sinners suffer for as long as He exists? Think about that for a moment.

For the rest of God's existence, the sinners will be in constant, unending, equal to God's own eternity, torment.

You have God never relenting of His wrath or vengeance, for as long as He lives. Destroying sinners who have been judged and found wanting isn't enough. He also has to make them pay with interest, a debt they could never pay for in the first place (Jesus paid it all???) for the rest of His existence, just to prove a point.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Don't you see how this impugns God's righteousness?

You have God, who is love, mercilessly, endlessly, intentionally, beyond all bounds and limitations of control, causing unceasing torture for eternity.

Even a lifetime of heinous sin only merits an equal judgment or verdict rendered against it. The punishment fits the crime. That is clear all throughout the Bible. Not all crimes or sins were of a capital offense nature. Jesus remarked about those ignorant of God's will who will receive less of a whipping than the ones who were cognizant of God's will.

And yet, in the resurrection of the unjust, God loses His mind and decides He is going to make sinners suffer for as long as He exists? Think about that for a moment.

For the rest of God's existence, the sinners will be in constant, unending, equal to God's own eternity, torment.

You have God never relenting of His wrath or vengeance, for as long as He lives. Destroying sinners who have been judged and found wanting isn't enough. He also has to make them pay with interest, a debt they could never pay for in the first place (Jesus paid it all???) for the rest of His existence, just to prove a point.

So how long do you think they will be tormented for?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

So how long do you think they will be tormented for?

It's rather immaterial in a certain sense, since I have no idea, and can't give you Book, Chapter, Verse.

But, generally speaking, I would offer the following supposition:

As long as it takes for their punishment to be meted out. Some receive many stripes, as it were, some receive few. I submit this suggests a degree of severity based on how much or little a person knew of the Lord Jesus and the Gospel.

For example: regarding Lazarus and the Rich Man. One argues it's just a parable. Another says it was a real story. In truth, it doesn't matter either way.

While the rich man was in torments, his punishment was still being exacted. When it was filled up (See Matthew 23:32), he would die the second death and be no more. Prior to that, he was experiencing conscious torment. He was, as it were, receiving his "stripes" until he died eternally.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

It's rather immaterial in a certain sense, since I have no idea, and can't give you Book, Chapter, Verse.

But, generally speaking, I would offer the following supposition:

As long as it takes for their punishment to be meted out. Some receive many stripes, as it were, some receive few. I submit this suggests a degree of severity based on how much or little a person knew of the Lord Jesus and the Gospel.

For example: regarding Lazarus and the Rich Man. One argues it's just a parable. Another says it was a real story. In truth, it doesn't matter either way.

While the rich man was in torments, his punishment was still being exacted. When it was filled up (See Matthew 23:32), he would die the second death and be no more. Prior to that, he was experiencing conscious torment. He was, as it were, receiving his "stripes" until he died eternally.

It appears to me that the rich man was experiencing the second death according to Revelation 21:8. He was in the Fire.

[TulsaDavid]

It is NOT a parable. The Gospels are explicit to let you know when it is a parable. "And He spoke a parable", or "the kingdom is likened", etc.

When Jesus said "there was a certain rich man" and "there was a certain beggar", He did not lie. And if by some off chance it was a parable (most unlikely, still), Jesus would not have falsified the rich man's condition in hell fire nor lead us down some unrealistic path.

The last thing any of us want is to be lost. But we also certainly don't want to hedge our bets with something like annihilation of the wicked.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

It is NOT a parable. The Gospels are explicit to let you know when it is a parable. "And He spoke a parable", or "the kingdom is likened", etc.

When Jesus said "there was a certain rich man" and "there was a certain beggar", He did not lie. And if by some off chance it was a parable (most unlikely, still), Jesus would not have falsified the rich man's condition in hell fire nor lead us down some unrealistic path.

The last thing any of us want is to be lost. But we also certainly don't want to hedge our bets with something like annihilation of the wicked.

Hedge our bets? How so? If we dont want to be lost the key is to abide in Jesus. Make sure our works are perfect. Anything short of that leads to destruction.

[TulsaDavid]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hedge our bets? How so? If we dont want to be lost the key is to abide in Jesus. Make sure our works are perfect. Anything short of that leads to destruction.

According to the tale of annihilation, it's only temporary. After that you don't feel a thing. No more punishment. Live like you want. Sin all you want. Burn for a while. Then no more. Sounds like a deal for the world.