MANGUN, SUBER and the POA...SHOUTING ..TOGETHER!!!!

[tv1a]

You are way off on this one.

Do you think Jesus hated the pharisees? He used the same techniques I use. I haven't gone as far as saying those I disagree with have a devil in them. Jesus went as far as telling the pharisees their daddy was the devil. I have intellectual conversations with those who want to be intelligent and not so intellectual conversation with those who are deficent in that area. Paul said I am all things to all. He couldn't do that if he was sitting in the seat of religious superiority.

Originally Posted by stmatthew

No, but I always notice the utter hatred you always display in your posts when talking about anyone or anything you disagree with.

[tv1a]

You posed a question with what's wrong with a word taking on a secondary meaning? If you really think that is okay, allow me to reiterate what the general consensus is of an apostolic. On second thought look in the archives... The so-called secondary definition of apostolic is near as rosey as you would hope it to be. You need to review the thread and see the denial of the conservatives. They went as far as suggesting these intelligent people were stupid because their perception of apostolic was far worse than what the conservative definition of apostolic is. If you are going to take the liberty in redefining words, you better be man enough to take it when society, even scripture says your made up definition is wrong.

Originally Posted by bdlooney

Oh come on! How can you say that a conservative created their "own" definition of charismatic? Do you have proof?

I can refer to a church as "charismatic" when speaking to a UC, Mod or Lib Oneness Pentecostal and all three will know what I am refering to.

I am aware of the official Webster's definition of charismatic. I understand that by it's definition you are charismatic if you speak in tongues. I can accept that but why is it wrong for a word to take on a secondary meaning in certain circles?

"Charismatic" is a word used and understood by all of Oneness Pentecost so don't blame it all on the conservatives.

[tv1a]

Since you are not my pastor, I'll take your observation for what it's worth. I'll let you peek into my world. I'm not about pretense. I'm not about being fake. I am real. People are tired of phoney and inconsistency of religion. When relationship becomes a religion than you get the twisted perverted use of scripture and the misue of spiritual authority.

It may be better if I randomly put those silly icons in my posts. It may clear up my image. Than again it's not the church world I'm trying to impress anyway. I'm in service for my King in winning the lost. Not only am I smart enough to know what works and what doesn't, I am smart enough to pull the trigger for change.

The game has been played with the wrong rules for too long. There are a group of us whose old time religion is more than 50-60 years old. We're ready for that next level. If that makes me a hater, it's a small price I'll pay for the Kingdom.

Originally Posted by stmatthew

No, but I always notice the utter hatred you always display in your posts when talking about anyone or anything you disagree with.

[bdlooney]

Originally Posted by NLYP

Brandon...It is DEFINITELY the Conservatives that heave distorted the word to fit anybody that does not go along with what they, the almighties, think is right.

First of all, my definition of this word.

Charismatic- a church or a person that believes in the baptism of the Holy Spirit while not having holiness standards. (ex: women can cut their hair and wear pants, makeup, men in shorts etc...)

I am not saying this definition is right but it is the way that I have always used it and understood it.

Secondly, someone please PROVE to me that a conservative is the one created this secondary meaning to the word "chraismatic.

I work with a lady that attends a non-denominational, Spirit filled church. She fits MY definition of a charismatic perfectly. She is aware of the UPC and what it stands for. She describes herself as a charismatic but does not necesarily include the UPC in her definition.

She is a charismatic and I am a Oneness Holiness Pentecostal. Those are her words not mine.

She is not a conservative but understands and uses the word to describe herself. So please prove to me a conservative concocted this definition.

[tv1a]

Conservatives have used this a slur for decades. Most charismatics do not use a dress code as a litmus test for defining charimatic.

If you want proof conservatives have hijacked the word charismatic, just scroll some archives. Who is labelling people charismatics at the drop of the hat? It's not the liberals.

Let's see in my short run on aff, TF Tenney has accused of going charismatic because he preaches outside his denomination. Anthony Mangun has been called charismatic because he came out for television advertising. I don't recall Steve Epley or Cookskiner being slapped with a charismatic label.

The West Virginia District has a way of neutralizing churches in their area. Label a church charismatic and start 2 churches within 15-20 minutes from that one and get the aljc church 3 miles down the road to switch affilliation.
Even our church has been labelled charismatic. And my pastor has preached more from the Bible in two years than his predecessors did in 50 years.

Your definition of charismatic may be noble. I will take your word for it. But not many people share your sentiments.

Originally Posted by bdlooney

First of all, my definition of this word.

Charismatic- a church or a person that believes in the baptism of the Holy Spirit while not having holiness standards. (ex: women can cut their hair and wear pants, makeup, men in shorts etc...)

I am not saying this definition is right but it is the way that I have always used it and understood it.

Secondly, someone please PROVE to me that a conservative is the one created this secondary meaning to the word "chraismatic.

I work with a lady that attends a non-denominational, Spirit filled church. She fits MY definition of a charismatic perfectly. She is aware of the UPC and what it stands for. She describes herself as a charismatic but does not necesarily include the UPC in her definition.

She is a charismatic and I am a Oneness Holiness Pentecostal. Those are her words not mine.

She is not a conservative but understands and uses the word to describe herself. So please prove to me a conservative concocted this definition.

[Bro-Larry]

I'd like to point out that the AWCF is bigger than the UPC. I don't think JS will have any problem filling his preach card, as full as he wants.

[Bro-Larry]

The AWCF is bigger than the UPC, don't think JS will have a scheduling problem

[deadeye]

To call the AWCF bigger than the UPC is somewhat of a misconcption.

There are many who may have some kind of affiliation with them, but they are from what I understand an EXTREMELY loose fellowship, with no real structure other than calling themselves part of the AWCF.

Looking at thier General Conferance it looks like they can hardly get enuf together to have a good dog fight.

Go to the UPC GC and you will see 15 - 20 thousand. LA. Camp averages 25,000 through it in a week.
Youth congress has 13-15 thousand....there is no way that the "huge" AWCF can even hope to match that.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Since you are not my pastor, I'll take your observation for what it's worth. I'll let you peek into my world. I'm not about pretense. I'm not about being fake. I am real. People are tired of phoney and inconsistency of religion. When relationship becomes a religion than you get the twisted perverted use of scripture and the misue of spiritual authority.

It may be better if I randomly put those silly icons in my posts. It may clear up my image. Than again it's not the church world I'm trying to impress anyway. I'm in service for my King in winning the lost. Not only am I smart enough to know what works and what doesn't, I am smart enough to pull the trigger for change.

The game has been played with the wrong rules for too long. There are a group of us whose old time religion is more than 50-60 years old. We're ready for that next level. If that makes me a hater, it's a small price I'll pay for the Kingdom.

No I am not your pastor. I am just one of the lowly owners of this forum that allows you to post here. I'll let you peek into my world as well. You have a privilege of posting here, and not a right. So since you are smart enough to know what works and what doesn't, you are probably also smart enough to know that your continual posts filled with hatred will find you without a place to post them.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Since you are not my pastor, I'll take your observation for what it's worth. I'll let you peek into my world. I'm not about pretense. I'm not about being fake. I am real. People are tired of phoney and inconsistency of religion. When relationship becomes a religion than you get the twisted perverted use of scripture and the misue of spiritual authority.

It may be better if I randomly put those silly icons in my posts. It may clear up my image. Than again it's not the church world I'm trying to impress anyway. I'm in service for my King in winning the lost. Not only am I smart enough to know what works and what doesn't, I am smart enough to pull the trigger for change.

The game has been played with the wrong rules for too long. There are a group of us whose old time religion is more than 50-60 years old. We're ready for that next level. If that makes me a hater, it's a small price I'll pay for the Kingdom.

Bro. tv1a,

It might be wise to carefully examine which direction that next "level"

or step is going. Levels or steps go two directions. Up or down. Once your

footing leaves solid ground, you could go up but it also could be down. I do

not want to step off solid ground that I have stood on and have found to

be good ground for not only me but for my family as well. If we are not

standing on solid ground, the Rock, Christ Jesus, we will not stand for long

no matter what level we think we are stepping up too. That step just might

be the one to cause us and our family to completely lose our balance and

footing. We can step down (humble ourselves) or we can step up,(at His

leading),but we can also fall down, losing our balance. If we are being led

by the Spirit of Almighty God, we don't have to worry, but if we are being

led by those who may have become blinded, we have plenty to be concerned

about. I am saying we had better be led by the Spirit and not by men!

There is something that causes a concern when I hear the younger speak

against what the elders have done when they haven't done anything them-

selves except follow those who seek their own direction. THERE IS going to

be a SHOWDOWN one of these days and it is not going to be pretty. GOD

has led humble men and women who have had to walk by faith and not by

sight and He will not abandon them when those that they birthed and

many times act like spoiled brats, criticize the wonderful heritage that has

brought them to where they are today. Read the story of Rehoboam,

Solomon's son who reigned, after his dad's death when he consulted the

younger men instead of listening to those who had been loyal to the king.

But they wanted to be freed from the heavy burdens. Rehoboam's choice

completely split the kingdom. Two and ten. There's a lot more to the story

but that's enough for now.

Just some thoughts for those who weren't back there during the "hard"

times of sacrifice. They have been given so much they are tired of it, like

those children of Israel who were tired of the heavenly manna freely given

but they wanted more.

Blessings,

Falla39