All this Emotion

[pastorrick1959]

goodpost cliff. i am pastor now but evangelised for yrs. so i still carryy that flame buring on the inside for those wild out of control services..lovem always will ,there is a time for that at worship time but at preaching we need not just excitement but a true word and directional word with wisdom andf knowledge to guide and lead us in the right way ,, guys it takes it all ...take out wild worship as long as descent and innorder we be no different than the baptist and just as dead after a while!i preached in many a apostolic church the had dried up the 1st night of revival was a shock to them lol my screaming and going on but after the gifts was mveing by the spiriit of god and people getting healed i have heard the preacher say i aint seen them move like this in yrs. while wild worship is just iceing on the cake , it still goes with the meal , we dont have to shout the walls out every service but if we rule it out as simply i to mature now to do that we become dead and boreing!

[All4one]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I have been pastoring for about 13 years. I was introduced to the Apostolic faith while in the Marine Corps, 30 years ago. The experience was beyond words and my testimony is genuine. I still serve the Lord today and love His Word beyond measure.

I've been married 28 years, raising 3 children in the Church. Through the years I have seen many falicies within religion and the Apostolic movement. I do love our message, but not always our means to deliver it. I don't feel my concepts are the result of that dreaded word, compromise, but an honest evaluation of the Church and God's Word.

Coming from the Catholic faith, spending 18 years in this organization and seeing the indescribable failure within the ministry, I feel it is wise to take a closer look at our own patterns and understand where we are going. We are human and can fail just like anybody else. We cannot rest upon the cynical idea that we can't fall like others. Even amongst our own ranks, we have seen the worst of the worst.

I have pleaded in prayer for understanding regarding our "hype" to get people excited about serving God in fullness. Our services and Conferences can be places where emotional drunkeness satisfies for the moment, but when reality strikes, we are left in the quandry of confusion and little strength. The fruit is a saved soul on Sunday night, but the rest of the week is nothing but a real world with real problems.

Looking at the Scripture, never do we find Jesus teaching to a crowd with all of this hype. Screaming, yelling, rolling on the ground, patting preachers on the back, all of this seems to point a direction not leading to God Himself. Pretty soon people don't come to church for anything but their "fix". I have family members and church members who have been injured at an altar call. Preachers shaking their head while praying for them, then losing their balance and fallling to the ground, hitting their head, is not God.

Sometimes crowds can be so loud, you can't hear what the preacher is saying and people are saying amen to something they can't even comprehend.

My burden is to draw nearer to Him and His ways, not the Apostolic church ways. We need to stop comparing church to a football game and remember, Church is a place that is sacred. Hoping pews and going into a frenzy won't save anybody. I think we need to take a closer look at the Word for direct guidence on proper Church order and conduct.

It's so funny how we criticize others on practice or form in their Faith, but then we do things that totally contradict sound doctrine. We must be cautious about this, because this leads to the worship of man. Coming to church is based on the fact, "Who can move me?". The Big Name Evangelist, or the Biggest Church, or where the Choir sings the best, that's where to go.

I've heard it said, if Jesus walked down the streets of our cities, most Apostolics would miss him. He was born in a manger (rejected) and died by his own (rejected). His life was always in question because he chose the low road.

God doesn't fill Apostolics; He fills those who hunger and thirst after righteousness. He sees the man who smites his breast with honesty about his sinful condition and need for help. Duty is the guide to complete integrity with God, not feeling. We must learn to go, even if we don't want to go.

I think you are right on! God speaks usually in a still small voice and its hard to hear Him in a gymnasium type worship service. I think alot of visiting people have been run off when they saw a bunch of hype and were wanting to hear from God.

[Falla39]

Newborns SHOULD desire the sincere milk of the Word that they may grow thereby.

Jesus said to Nicodemus in John, chapter 3, that except a MAN be born of the water
and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. A man, not a little child,
not an infant, but a MAN.

Parents can produce a child, train it up, but there needs to be understanding.
A man needs to have had the training up and the WORD put into him from a "child
thou has known the holy scriptures that are able to make the wise unto salvation
through faith, which is in Christ Jesus". Jesus told his disciples that the WORDS he
spake unto them, they were spirit and they were life. In other words, HIS WORDS
to them were very important. They were LIFE-giving!

Why did Paul consider young Timothy to mentor. He saw the faith (that comes from
hearing and hearing the Word of God) in this young man. He had seen it in his mother,
Eunice and in his grandmother, Lois, and he knew it was in this young man. That he
had known the holy scriptures that would make him wise unto salvation which is in
Christ Jesus.

You cannot send your young people to Bible School and in three or four years come
out and know everything there is to know! And then to expect them to become the
pastor of those who have been in the Word and in the church for many, many years.
And we wonder why there is such conflict in the churches today. The young trying
to tell the elders when in most cases they have not been there.

I have never been a lot of places as far as being a world traveler. I have never been
out of the United States of America! I have seen photos, films, read books about a
lot of places, but I cannot tell you what it is to be places out of my country. Just have
not been there, done that. But there is one thing I know. From the time I was old
enough to comprehend much, we were trained to KNOW that the Word of God was
of the utmost importance in our home. As little children we were trained
to sit and listen each night to the word of God. Did we understand all we heard.
NO, we were trained to sit and listen. We were also trained to sing together with the
family. If we were seen not singing with the others, we were made to sing by ourselves.
No one wanted to have to sing by themselves, so we sang together.

What I am saying is, I have seen a problem with much noise and much activity in doing,
doing and doing. But NOT near enough of the HEARING and TEACHING of the WORD OF
GOD that is "able to make you wise unto salvation, which is in Chirst Jesus".

Our late father would say (after he started the work of God in our city in 1958), "IF all
the Word of God you hear, is what you hear me preach from the pulpit, it is not near
enough. You need to read your Bible for yourself". Get the Word IN you!!! Read your
Bible everyday". Pray everyday!

When Dad started that work in 1958, he worked a full-time job. He was the father of
11 children and still had time to take the family alter out of the home to a small store-
front building where he could share the Word with the community in which he would
raise his children. My eldest brother was already in college and I had just turned 19 yrs.
old. Had been out of school since May, 1957. There were 9 sibling younger than I. I
worked and helped out and thought nothing of doing it! It was just the right thing to
do. Someone said "Some people do the things they do because they feel it is the right
thing to do. But others do what they do because of who and what they are". As children
we are trained/taught to do what is right. Then later as mature adults, we do the things
we do because of who and what we have become.

We can shout and sing and have "victory marches" until we drop from exhaustion, but
if we "have no Word in us", we will not been victorious! If we do not have the WORD
of GOD IN us, sooner or later, what we have spent our time on, will be made manifest.
Could it be that what we have thought of, as a worldly people, has simply been a
"Wordless" people! It is an individual requirement. Mom and Dad can't always be
there with the Word. We Must have it IN ourselves. We MUST build our foundation
on the Solid Rock or it will not stand through the storms of life. It's not too late!
Cast ALL our cares upon Him today! Get into the Word today! His Word says to "Be still
and KNOW that I AM GOD".

Just some thoughts this morning. No offense intended.

Blessings,

Falla39

[TK Burk]

Sis. Falla, you said a lot here!! Man cannot live by bread alone. If they do not eat the Word on a daily basis, they will suffer spirtual famine. Thanks for the wise words!

[NotforSale]

Thanks for all of the response. Ultimately, I want a closer walk with Him, which comes through diligent searching of the heart and connecting that hunger to God's Word. Our answer to all things is in His Word.

That being said, some have responded to this post without giving us Scripture to ponder, so that we may find the way which pleases God, not man. My former pastor was convinced, we need His Word as the Compass because man will pollute the good with the bad, every time.

One example of this was the mount of transfiguration. The disciples became elated to the point they became misguided. Jesus had to calm the wave of emotion that was overtaking them, bringing them back to the valley of reality.

Like I said earlier, I've been in Pentecost a long time. I've seen honest blessing and horrible failure. The first Apostolic church I attended was "on fire". We were growing, we danced, we ran, we spoke in tongues, the place was exploding. But tragedy struck, when the pastor fell into adultery. The sheep scattered, the revival was abated, and people were confused.

When this happened my perspective on things began to change. As the years rolled by I realized that relationship with God was predicated on more than the "shout". If I didn't find God outside of the transfigured moment I would become pharasiacal and empty, bound by the ropes of false religion. I would do things just because everybody else did it.

As a pastor, I stear away from the dogmatic and the dramatic because human flesh loves these. I try to look upon people as God does, knowing He can move on them better than I can. I refuse to drive the Holy Ghost into people by some crazy prayer antic or bizzare style that isn't Scriptural. On the Day of Pentecost, God moved on that room.

This is what I want; God to move. We must understand, sometimes God chooses to shut up the womb. When this happens, we must be patient and not resort to some ill fashioned concept developed from the deapths of human reasoning.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Sis. Falla, you said a lot here!! Man cannot live by bread alone. If they do not eat the Word on a daily basis, they will suffer spirtual famine. Thanks for the wise words!

Why was Daniel so victorious! Could it be because he prayed as
often as he ate physically. If we could eat the Word and pray as
often as we feed our flesh, I can assure you we will be better
equipped to overcome the desires and works of the flesh!

Blessings,

Falla39

[steve p]

Man, this is some good stuff!!!

[SOUNWORTHY]

Thank you so much for your words NFS and everyone. I was just talking to some friends about this subject this evening and I am happy I am not the only one concerned about this. Some members think if they shout at every service they are spiritual. There is more to our walk with God than shouting at EVERY service. What happens when the music stops and they are faced with a trial? I go away from service at times feeling depressed because 1/2 the church was running in circles and I didn't feel the same. I get my blessing by crying instead of dancing. Just because a church does not constantly dance does not mean they have a "dead" church. You can feel a powerful move of God by an anointed song or message. I know David danced before the ark but David did not dance all the time yet he was a man after God's own heart.

[KWSS1976]

I know when we have a certain evagailist come to preach he starts screaming when he preaches and throws his jacket off . To me there is no need in all the screaming and running around you and preach your messege in a regular voice and people will still understand I don't even go to the service if this particular preacher will be there cause all the shouting really gets on my nerves specially as small as our church is. My parents go to a really large baptist church and the music is good and the preacher gets up there gives his messege and no screaming or yelling and those people are doing more to get people to god then most petecostal and apostolics. To me I do not see the need for the yelling and jumping and running.

[iceniez]

Originally Posted by cliff d

I like to think of my walk with the Lord in terms of a child in the maturing process.
As a new born we need to be held (always feeling those holy ghost goose bumps and that tingling freshness of the spirit) every day.
As we approach the toddler years we will wonder off from time to time but never to far always running back for that warm tingling feeling we need.
Than as we reach adulthood we rely more on the word and not so much the feelings.....
But as adults we return to our parents from time to time with a greater understanding of why we feel the way we do(we have now reached that place the times of refreshing that the bible speaks of).

I Agree with one additional note often times the exterior tingles are replaced by an internal gripping of the heart that make one almost feel as if anymore of God's presence you would explode.