Deltaguitar-Salvation Requires More Than Faith!

[KWSS1976]

Yes he is and he is a die hard 3 stepper mabey even 4 stepper but even he understands how gods grace can save us...

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Yes he is and he is a die hard 3 stepper mabey even 4 stepper but even he understands how gods grace can save us...

Have him study Grace -vs- Obedience.

[pelathais]

If you don't put the work of Jesus Christ ahead of the works of man in importance, then it is as if ...

... Jesus Christ never died; (Romans 6:3)
... Jesus Christ was never buried; (Romans 6:4)
... Jesus Christ had never risen from the dead (Romans 6:5).

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

Deltaquitar and others,
...
Delta here's something interesting for you to ponder. Read Roman 6:3-11, there it speaks of water baptism and its symbolism.
...

Is the baptism spoken of in Romans 6 that puts us into Christ, water baptism?
Or is it a work of the Spirit that happens when we believe in Jesus, of which water baptism is only a picture/figure/shadow?
Is saying that water baptism is necessary to put us into Christ confusing the shadow with the substance and trusting in the shadow/symbol/picture for salvation?

Was first century burial done by digging a hole, placing a corpse into it, and then covering completely with dirt, or was it placing a corpse in an above ground cave to allow the process of nature to take its course?

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by pelathais

If you don't put the work of Jesus Christ ahead of the works of man in importance, then it is as if ...

... Jesus Christ never died; (Romans 6:3)
... Jesus Christ was never buried; (Romans 6:4)
... Jesus Christ had never risen from the dead (Romans 6:5).

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

I gave you a simple example and you still don't understand. I don't know what else to tell you. Other people here understood. Perhaps you should PM them, that they may interpret in whatever method you would understand.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

Have him study Grace -vs- Obedience.

I would quibble with you here, Bro. How about, "Have him study Grace & Obedience... ?

Except, I think KW said "he" died.

An excellent couple of books on this subject are:

Elect in the Son and Life in the Son by Robert Shank. Shank was a theology professor at a prominent Baptist seminary when he first published "Elect in the Son." The book cost him his job because he took the "Wesleyan/Holiness" position.

He's actually quite balanced. A very nice pastor in Texas gave me these two books many years ago when I was a young preacher in the UPC.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

?

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

Deltaquitar and others,

When you read my post, please read its entirety, without skipping any sentences.



Faith without obedience voids the "cause" at the cross.

It's in our obedience that we obtain salvation. James states "faith without works is dead." If your faith is genuine, your faith's fruits will be evidentiary. I purport two faiths, one absent of works while the other is accompanied by works/manifestations. James states, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." The authentication (i.e. works, faith) of those devils believing is their trembling.


Another beautiful example of what I'm trying to convey is found in James 2:15-17. If your brother/sister is naked and hungered, and at their departure you say "depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled", and you fail to cloth or feed them, where is the sincerity in your faith of your brother/sister's well being? Your faith alone isn't enough unless it's accompanied by obedience, which is the same message the entire second chapter of James is conveying.


To acknowledge Jesus as your Lord, that requires more than a confession of Him being your master. To accept Him as your master, you must obey and submit to his rules and authority.



To understand what I'm about to state doesn't require a Theology degree. What is required is basic comprehension.



Delta here's something interesting for you to ponder. Read Roman 6:3-11, there it speaks of water baptism and its symbolism.


According to Romans 6:3-11, when we are water baptized, we are:
baptized into His death -Romans 6:3
buried with Him -Romans 6:4
raised with Him -Romans 6:4
united with Him in His resurrection -Romans 6:5
crucified with Him -Romans 6:6
no longer slaves to sin -Romans 6:7
free from sin -Romans 6:7
we will live with Him -Romans 6:8
dead to sin -Romans 6:11
alive to God -Romans 6:11


This would conclude that when we are NOT WATER BAPTIZED, we are:
NOT baptized into His death -Romans 6:3
NOT buried with Him -Romans 6:4
NOT raised with Him -Romans 6:4
NOT united with Him in His resurrection -Romans 6:5
NOT crucified with Him -Romans 6:6
STILL slaves to sin -Romans 6:7
NOT free from sin -Romans 6:7
NOT live with Him -Romans 6:8
NOT dead to sin -Romans 6:11
NOT alive to God -Romans 6:11


You can't argue with simple interpretation of scripture. Baptism is necessary! For this reason Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" Mark 16:16

My question is not about obedience but faith. I am asking is it our faith that makes Christ's work effective or did Christ purchase grace to give us faith and give us the ability to repent.

Now since you brought up obedience, how much obedience is required before we are born again. At what point do we become justified or made right with the Father?

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by Sam

Is the baptism spoken of in Romans 6 that puts us into Christ, water baptism?
Or is it a work of the Spirit that happens when we believe in Jesus, of which water baptism is only a picture/figure/shadow?
Is saying that water baptism is necessary to put us into Christ confusing the shadow with the substance and trusting in the shadow/symbol/picture for salvation?

Was first century burial done by digging a hole, placing a corpse into it, and then covering completely with dirt, or was it placing a corpse in an above ground cave to allow the process of nature to take its course?

It speaks of water baptism.

Are you familiar with methods of burial within the first century? In any-case, according to scripture, the tomb (place of burial) was empty, thus, Jesus arising from what first century inhabitants utilized as a grave.

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

My question is not about obedience but faith. I am asking is it our faith that makes Christ's work effective or did Christ purchase grace to give us faith and give us the ability to repent.

Now since you brought up obedience, how much obedience is required before we are born again. At what point do we become justified or made right with the Father?

I answered your question. Faith without works is dead. It's our faith that allows us to believe and become obedient.