Born Gay? Or God's Call?

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by ILG

I'm not saying that it can't be successfully done. I am saying that an adulterous woman should not counsel alone with a male pastor (this is practiced regularly in churches as a precaution even with non-adulterous women!) It just makes sense CBO...nothing personal is meant by it and I did not mean to offend you. It's just that I believe that certain boundaries are appropriate in certain situations. I think two former homosexual males would be wise not to counsel alone together but with another present or in groups. Even if nothing innappropriate is taking place, false accusations are something on top of everything else to be concerned about along with the other concerns in that situation.

This was what I meant by the church needing to be educated regarding sin...homosexuality. The sin of adultery is a sexual sin just like homosexuality. Sexual sins are very difficult for some because that sin become en-grained in the very fiber of those individuals that struggle with those sins.

When you meet someone like Brother ******* in FL who was a drunkard....do you still see him and label him as a former drunkard or do you see him as a man of God? If we are ever going to see people set free from homosexuality we must see them through the cross of Calvary and through the eyes of Jesus.

Are my sins any different than yours if I've been forgiving and delivered? Would you feel comfortable if others in the church would gossip about your former life? It is fitting for me to give my testimony of deliverance for the Glory of God and give hope to others steeped in similar sins.

But to label me as a "former" would take away from the very act of redemption I found at Calvary. If Christ doesn't remember my sins what gives others permission to remember and not forget them too.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

I just wanted to clarify that there were many people that have left the church because they didn't feel that they could turn to their pastor (or other saints). I'm not bashing pastors in general, because I have a great pastor; however, I have seen pastors rail in the pulpit that homosexuals were bound for hell with no hope.

How could someone struggling with homosexuality who was exposed to that type of preaching feel comfortable going to those pastors for counseling? God will lead people who are desiring change to the right person to minister to them. God knows what He is doing and I for one won't stand in His way with my personal beliefs.

Thank you though for mentioning something that needed to be addressed this evening.

chosen

I do understand and share your concern about people with this struggle being unable to possibly talk to some pastors about this issue. I definately feel your pain in that, just as I felt the pain of people railing and laughing about alcoholics and such (or even Catholics) from the pulpit and pew and saying they also were bound for hell with no hope. This is my background. It is easy to laugh and make fun when you don't know anyone in those situations. It is easy to alienate those who struggle in your own pew. (On the flipside, I have come to understand the other side and am less sensitive to those types of jokes.)

I think those who are struggling should get help where they can....even if they have to break some rules to do it IF THAT IS THEIR ONLY HOPE. Generally though...those risks should not be taken unless there is no other alterntive. And then, if those risks are taken, they must be taken with great caution...knowing that it is the route for healing....knowing that there is a risk and temptation in the middle of it all.

I had some friends years ago that understood my pain, my ostracism, my alienation because they too felt it. BUt there was a danger in that. We could have gone off on some bandwagon of our own...an ungodly one....that would have come to no good in the end. That said, one's own salvation and love for God must come before anything....even healing of the soul. And if it does, I believe He will give us the desires of our hearts and give us healing in the long run. But those precautions can lead to the saving of the soul. No precautions could lose it.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

This was what I meant by the church needing to be educated regarding sin...homosexuality. The sin of adultery is a sexual sin just like homosexuality. Sexual sins are very difficult for some because that sin become en-grained in the very fiber of those individuals that struggle with those sins.

When you meet someone like Brother ******* in FL who was a drunkard....do you still see him and label him as a former drunkard or do you see him as a man of God? If we are ever going to see people set free from homosexuality we must see them through the cross of Calvary and through the eyes of Jesus.

Are my sins any different than yours if I've been forgiving and delivered? Would you feel comfortable if others in the church would gossip about your former life? It is fitting for me to give my testimony of deliverance for the Glory of God and give hope to others steeped in similar sins.

But to label me as a "former" would take away from the very act of redemption I found at Calvary. If Christ doesn't remember my sins what gives others permission to remember and not forget them too.

We remember 'former' because it is important to understand the struggles and weaknesses of a person. I think this is true of all 'formers' not just homoseuxality. I think homosexuality along with other sexual sins is a bit different though in that it kind of creeps people out because folks don't want to be the object of any kind of wrong thoughts.

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by tamor

I agree with you ILG. I think part of it is dealing with "familiar spirits". They know how, when, and where to push our buttons to cause us to react a certain way to certain situations.

I'm very much informed about the subject of "familiar spirits." The homosexual is very much aware of something they call "gaydar." They recognize someone with a "familiar spirit" when that person is still involved in similar sins.

I'm I to believe that you feel that once a homosexual always a homosexual by what you wrote above? What we need as a body of believers is to seek the Lord and have him remove the preconceived ideas of people that have came out of lifestyles that we have no knowledge of...

If we don't walk in the knowledge of Christ the consequences could become very dire for many who need to be seen as children of God and not a hopeless case.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

I'm very much informed about the subject of "familiar spirits." The homosexual is very much aware of something they call "gaydar." They recognize someone with a "familiar spirit" when that person is still involved in similar sins.

I'm I to believe that you feel that once a homosexual always a homosexual by what you wrote above? What we need as a body of believers is to seek the Lord and have him remove the preconceived ideas of people that have came out of lifestyles that we have no knowledge of...

If we don't walk in the knowledge of Christ the consequences could become very dire for many who need to be seen as children of God and not a hopeless case.

I don't think it's a matter of "once a homosexual, always a homosexual" but a matter of knowing what our weaknesses are and taking the appropriate actions to make sure we avoid putting ourselves in situations that could cause us to stumble. That goes for all of us no matter where we come from or what weaknesses we may have.

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by ILG

We remember 'former' because it is important to understand the struggles and weaknesses of a person. I think this is true of all 'formers' not just homoseuxality. I think homosexuality along with other sexual sins is a bit different though in that it kind of creeps people out because folks don't want to be the object of any kind of wrong thoughts.

I wonder if I creep Jesus out? I would say that your statement above shocked me, but sadly I am not shocked at all.

God help us.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

I wonder if I creep Jesus out? I would say that your statement above shocked me, but sadly I am not shocked at all.

God help us.

I am talking about ALL sexual sins, not just homosexuality. Adultery creeps people out too. And it should.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

I wonder if I creep Jesus out? I would say that your statement above shocked me, but sadly I am not shocked at all.

God help us.

And sadly, you personalized what I said. I didn't say YOU creep people out, I said sexual sin does.

[SDG]

I think this conversation is going nowhere right now ... maybe we should put on ice.

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by ILG

I don't think it's a matter of "once a homosexual, always a homosexual" but a matter of knowing what our weaknesses are and taking the appropriate actions to make sure we avoid putting ourselves in situations that could cause us to stumble. That goes for all of us no matter where we come from or what weaknesses we may have.

Sister,

Don't you know that through our weaknesses He is made strong? You take away from the very essence of that passage and the power of the transformation from a life of sin to a life with Christ.

If you have scripture to substantiate your beliefs, please enlighten me. Otherwise, I don't feel the need to continue this debate with you.