Can A Real Believer Support Abortion Rights?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I think what bother's me the most is when Christians say this issue doesn't or can't matter. How can it not? How can you endorse or vote for candidates who you know support abortion? They don't take a "neutral" stance. Far from it.

It isn't the "only" issue that matters to me (obviously), but it IS an important one.

All candidates support abortion rights. The Republicans are just masters at acting prolife to fool single issue voters into voting for them. It's a "wedge issue" to wedge out those passionate on the subject. Trust me...the Republicans don't want abortion to go away...they'd loose a large voting block if the issues moved on from abortion to jobs, health care, and economy.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Aquila

All candidates support abortion rights. The Republicans are just masters at acting prolife to fool single issue voters into voting for them. It's a "wedge issue" to wedge out those passionate on the subject. Trust me...the Republicans don't want abortion to go away...they'd loose a large voting block if the issues moved on from abortion to jobs, health care, and economy.

I'm aware the most support abortion at least in cases where the mother's life is in danger. However, there is a problem with the definition of abortion, as well. There is no need to confuse ending a pregnancy with necessarily ending the life of the child (deliberately). This is where too many people have been fooled.

It's one thing to "take the baby" to save the mother, and still try to save the life of the child. It's quite another to save the mother by taking the baby and either deliberately ending the life of the child, allowing it to die unassisted, or removing it with a method which will certainly end it's life. How does the latter contribute to saving the life of the mother? The answer is: It doesn't.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I'm aware the most support abortion at least in cases where the mother's life is in danger. However, there is a problem with the definition of abortion, as well. There is no need to confuse ending a pregnancy with necessarily ending the life of the child (deliberately). This is where too many people have been fooled.

It's one thing to "take the baby" to save the mother, and still try to save the life of the child. It's quite another to save the mother by taking the baby and either deliberately ending the life of the child, allowing it to die unassisted, or removing it with a method which will certainly end it's life. How does the latter contribute to saving the life of the mother? The answer is: It doesn't.

Great post. We can now save babies born as young as 24 weeks and sometimes younger.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Great post. We can now save babies born as young as 24 weeks and sometimes younger.

Thank you. In my opinion, as technology advances, the limitations on abortion should logically increase to at least banning abortion past the date of reasonable viability.

This is one point where even liberals should agree, and when they don't, it is very telling about their character and "secret" agendas.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

I don't know if you live in an area where Obama runs his campaign ads but I do and 9 out of 10 of them emphasize the difference between himself and McCain on the issue of Abortion. He has some commercials that are dedicated to that issue alone. He would not support a bill that banned abortion except in the cases of rape or incest or for the life of the mother. He wants abortion on demand.

I would support a bill that banned abortion except for the three reasons stated above even though I am not comfortable with the first two. The reality is Obama is prod of his abortioon on demand view. And this cannot be reconciled with Scripture. A friend of mine at the ACLJ has a few tag lines that he runs each day here are a couple of them.

Jim wonders whether freedom of choice extends to all male children under two in Judea and makes Herod an okay guy facing a question above his pay grade.

Jim thinks people are too hard on Pharaoh for killing the baby boys . . . just think of it as him exercising his freedom of choice.

Jim thanks God that Obama's pals at Planned Parenthood didn't murder John the Baptist, an inconvenient child born at an age when birth defects are real "threats".

Jim worries that if God is the defender of the weak, and if unborn children are the weak, then our abortion laws make us God's enemy.

It’s easy to say that we would support laws that only allowed for an abortion if the woman’s life or health was in danger, or maybe for some in cases of rape and or incest. However, these are very simplistic statements that are very difficult to enforce. For example I knew of a mother to be who had a cancerous growth immediately outside her uterus. The doctors were divided on rather she should abort or carry the child. The treatments would have caused her to either loose the child or to have the child seriously deformed. She had the option to forgo treatment and try to carry the child to term, but there were two very risky issues….the growth may have sapped nutrients from the child and left it still born or deformed and left her cancer too far advanced to treat, killing her. Some doctors on the staff believed that some promising treatments may be available after carrying the child to term. They were divided. Ultimately they left the choice up to her as to what she desired to do.

Here’s the deal…imagine these doctors being unable to justify the procedure legally to meet the government’s requirements. This would leave her in a very difficult and dangerous situation. Not to mention the potential politicization of the situation on the local level if it were an election year. Imagine a politician wanting to appear “tough on abortion” and it’s your wife on the table.

As much as a hate abortion, I don’t think government is the answer.

I think your friend is misinformed. Nobody is forced to abort in the United States. It’s a single personal choice made by far too many women yes….but it’s not a genocidal edict. Now, in China the story is different, they force abortion through policy. But nobody seems to care about how cozy America is with China as far as trade policy and borrowing money for the Iraq War.

Nobody in “Planned Parenthood” could murder John the Baptist because nobody forces an abortion in the United States. These are ignorant arguments meant for polemic points in my opinion. I’d like to see how he handles such a dark day if the doctors told him and his wife that abortion was an option that should be seriously considered. It’s easy to point the finger, puff out the chest, and act all moral and righteously indignant when you’re not the one who has to make such difficult choices. When the rubber meets the road….I don’t think the government is qualified to govern such situations.

As far as being a defender of the weak…the context of those texts are typically the poor, widows, fatherless, and strangers. Those qualified to glean that were neglected by the rich and powerful. Of course few even dare to consider the implications of the subject in context.

As far as abortion goes…pessaries were available since the times of ancient Egypt. Yet the Bible doesn’t address them. Some rabbinical authorities believe that there is a veiled reference to one in Numbers 5 but that’s a complex hermeneutic.

[Aquila]

Ultimately abortion is here to stay. A woman's body is her body and the government will never force a woman to give birth. No court in the land would rule in favor of such.

It's a waste of time, money, and votes. And this is only an issue to use guilt and religious convictions to force fit a Christian into voting for the party that religious conservatives demand they vote for.

This is a weapon....not an actual issue.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Aquila

This is a weapon....not an actual issue.

Tell that to the 50,000,000 babies who were killed.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Tell that to the 50,000,000 babies who were killed.

I will....

To the 50 million babies killed in America, you were aborted by your mothers. The Government didn't force them to abort. At any moment they could have chosen to keep you. Some of you were aborted out of necessity...most were aborted out of a choice based on fear or selfishness. The sin lays on your parents and God will judge justly. As for the political side of it, neither party plans on doing anything substantial to end abortion. But one party argues that it is on your side just to garner votes. They are capitalizing on your deaths for political gain.

There, I told that to them.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I will....

To the 50 million babies killed in America, you were aborted by your mothers. The Government didn't force them to abort. At any moment they could have chosen to keep you. Some of you were aborted out of necessity...most were aborted out of a choice based on fear or selfishness. The sin lays on your parents and God will judge justly. As for the political side of it, neither party plans on doing anything substantial to end abortion. But one party argues that it is on your side just to garner votes. They are capitalizing on your deaths for political gain.

There, I told that to them.

Since I argue against abortion and attribute it to murder what party am I a part of?

[Ferd]

Can A Real Believer Support Abortion Rights?

no.