Sinful union?

[KwaiQ]

I have to go to work now, but consider this. Adam sinned in the garden of eden, yet God fellowshipped or communed with him after the sin. Saul sinned against God, yet God "fellowshipped" with him on the Damascus road.

I'll try to post more at length later on today. God bless!

[Adino]

Originally Posted by KwaiQ

I have to go to work now, but consider this. Adam sinned in the garden of eden, yet God fellowshipped or communed with him after the sin. Saul sinned against God, yet God "fellowshipped" with him on the Damascus road.

I'll try to post more at length later on today. God bless!

God may have interacted, but a relationship which they once had was destroyed. Adam was now dead. He was without Life. He was without God.

His human spirit was in desperate need of being made regenerate of God. The human spirit needed to be born again of God (John 3:6). How can this take place without SIN which brings DEATH being taken care of?

If the relationship can be restored without sin being first removed then there was no need for Calvary.

[Adino]

How could Cornelius have still been dead in his sins if the "Holy" living Spirit of God dwelt in him?

If the relationship between the human spirit and the Spirit of God can be restored without sin being first removed then there was no need for Calvary.

The theological implications of the baptismal sin remission position are enormous.

[KwaiQ]

Originally Posted by Adino

How could Cornelius have still been dead in his sins if the "Holy" living Spirit of God dwelt in him?

If the relationship between the human spirit and the Spirit of God can be restored without sin being first removed then there was no need for Calvary.

The theological implications of the baptismal sin remission position are enormous.

His Spirit guides us and comforts us. Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Notice the last part of Titus 3:5 renewing of the Holy Ghost.

this word in the Greek is:
anakainōsis
Thayer Definition:
1) a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better
Part of Speech: noun feminine

God's Holy Spirit guided Cornelius, a repentant man to a saved relationship with God by the Blood of Jesus Christ being applied through his baptism. This man was clean, just as the man delivered from a devil was clean for a season. The "home" of the unclean Spirit was clean. The same could be said of Cornelius. He was clean, yet not delivered. See Mat 12:43-45.

Baptism is required for salvation.
Acts 2:38
Mark 16:16
Matt 28:18
John 3:5
Mat 3:16 Jesus shows us the example

[Adino]

Originally Posted by KwaiQ

His Spirit guides us and comforts us. Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Notice the last part of Titus 3:5 renewing of the Holy Ghost.

this word in the Greek is:
anakainōsis
Thayer Definition:
1) a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better
Part of Speech: noun feminine

God's Holy Spirit guided Cornelius, a repentant man to a saved relationship with God by the Blood of Jesus Christ being applied through his baptism. This man was clean, just as the man delivered from a devil was clean for a season. The "home" of the unclean Spirit was clean. The same could be said of Cornelius. He was clean, yet not delivered. See Mat 12:43-45.

Baptism is required for salvation.
Acts 2:38
Mark 16:16
Matt 28:18
John 3:5
Mat 3:16 Jesus shows us the example

If Cornelius' "house (heart)" could be cleansed enough for the indwelling of the Spirit of God..... what was the need for Calvary? Again, I think you've degraded the significance of the Cross.

Those who have the Spirit of Christ dwelling in them are no longer under condemnation (Romans 8:1-2,9). That a man can be purified by faith and indwelt by the Spirit of God yet remain in a state of condemnation until baptism seems theologically skewed. I'll need you to clarify this one. Maybe it would help if you told me the significance of the cross in your theology.

Thanks

[KwaiQ]

The cross has no significance. The shed blood has a great deal of significance. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.

[KwaiQ]

The cross has become an idol to many who call themselves Christian.

[KwaiQ]

The direct evidence of the scriptures I have quoted are huge theologically for you and yours. Explain why God considers it necessary for salvation.

Acts 2:38
Mark 16:16
Matt 28:18
John 3:5

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by KwaiQ

The direct evidence of the scriptures I have quoted are huge theologically for you and yours. Explain why God considers it necessary for salvation.

Acts 2:38
Mark 16:16
Matt 28:18
John 3:5

Not to mention how do you explain how a holy God cannot live in a vessel with unremitted sin, yet if that soul sin after being filled with the Spirit, God will remain in a that sin-laden vessel until confession and repentance is made and the blood of Jesus Christ washes away the sin. How is the first scenario any different that the second?

I cannot see the difference. Sin is sin. Holy is holy.

There must be another explanation than "Since the holy nature of God prohibits union with anything considered sinful, how is it the theology of many on this forum seems to suggest that God can dwell in and/or become unified with a heart which has not had sin removed?" because we know that we all have sinned since being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

I believe Adino danced around this issue in his last post in response to what I wrote.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Not to mention how do you explain how a holy God cannot live in a vessel with unremitted sin, yet if that soul sin after being filled with the Spirit, God will remain in a that sin-laden vessel until confession and repentance is made and the blood of Jesus Christ washes away the sin. How is the first scenario any different that the second?

I cannot see the difference. Sin is sin. Holy is holy.

I believe you are mistaken to think the believer must first confess and repent in order to get a sin "washed away" after salvation. The believer has imputed righteousness. The believer rests in the righteousness of Christ. When you begin to trust in your own righteous works for your status before God you transfer your faith from Christ to yourself. Dangerous move.

I believe Adino danced around this issue in his last post in response to what I wrote.

I believe a good study on imputed righteousness will do you well.

Btw, glancing at your last post to Dan I had to notice you tried to connect the "washing of regeneration" to baptism. When Titus 3:5 speaks of the "washing of regeneration" and the "renewing of the Holy Ghost" it refers to regeneration as the washing. Regeneration washes and the Holy Ghost renews. I do not see a reference to water baptism here at all.

God bless