Jail house Christianity and Jesus Name People

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Most of Christianity agrees with you, Keith ... it's the assertion being made that somehow there is a spiritual defectiveness if it doesn't look the way we interpret Scripture .....in the life of a BLOOD-BOUGHT, SPRIRIT FILLED, SON OF GOD.

Born of God ... means just that ... born of Him. It's not inferior from one believer to another.

This is how you and Liz are articulating it ... initially.

Yes I think there perhaps there is a spiritual defectiveness, in some yes!

How else do you interrupt Acts 2:38??? How else do you do it???

Again we should not have to defend Baptism in Jesus name-why are we having to do this?

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Most of Christianity agrees with you, Keith ... it's the assertion being made that somehow there is a spiritual defectiveness if it doesn't look the way we interpret Scripture .....in the life of a BLOOD-BOUGHT, SPRIRIT FILLED, SON OF GOD.

Born of God ... means just that ... born of Him. It's not inferior from one believer to another.

This is how you and Liz are articulating it ... initially.

If we don't have the biblical language or experience then mine is as good as yours and so on.

How does one become a blood bought, spirit filled son of God, and what are the characteristics that would determine if one is or isn't. Biblical language please?

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Obviously, Keith you have retained the Water and Spirit message ... even now ... which I believes still hinders your view of the entire Body of Christ ...
After reading your statement I can only infer that somehow only those who have gone through the birth process properly are the MOST HEALTHY... the others are spiritually defective?

Are you suggesting a person filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit ... but has not been "unified w/ Christ" through a properly administered baptism, is not dressed with all of Christ????

I am all for making a parallel with natural birth when we speak of our spiritual birth ... Christ did ....but since when is the baby the catalyst ...? Where does God call us mid-wives?

Max Lucado makes a great point when he says:

Born again. Birth, by definition, is a passive act. The enwombed child contributes nothing to the delivery. Postpartum celebrations applaud the work of the mother. No one lionizes the infant. (“Great work there, little one.”) No, give the tyke a pacifier not a medal. Mom deserves the gold. She exerts the effort. She pushes, agonizes, and delivers.

When my niece bore her first child, she invited her brother and mother to stand in the delivery room. After witnessing three hours of pushing, when the baby finally crowned, my nephew turned to his mom and said, “I’m sorry for every time I talked back to you.”

The mother pays the price of birth. She doesn’t enlist the child’s assistance or solicit his or her advice. Why would she? The baby can’t even take a breath without umbilical help, much less navigate a path into new life. Nor, Jesus is saying, can we. Spiritual rebirthing requires a capable parent, not an able infant.



Who is this parent? Check the strategically selected word again. The Greek language offers two choices for again:

• 1. Palin, which means a repetition of an act; to redo what was done earlier

• 2. Anothen, which also depicts a repeated action, but requires the original source to repeat it. It means “from above, from a higher place, things which come from heaven or God.” In other words, the one who did the work the first time does it again. This is the word Jesus chose.

The difference between the two terms is the difference between a painting by da Vinci and one by me. Suppose you and I are standing in the Louvre, admiring the famous Mona Lisa. Inspired by the work, I produce an easel and canvas and announce, “I’m going to paint this beautiful portrait again.”

And I do! Right there in the Salle des Etats, I brandish my palette and flurry my brush and re-create the Mona Lisa. Alas, Lucado is no Leonardo. Ms. Lisa has a Picassoesque imbalance to her—crooked nose and one eye higher than the other. Technically, however, I keep my pledge and paint the Mona Lisa again.


Jesus means something else. He employs the second Greek term, calling for the action of the original source. He uses the word anothen, which, if honored in the Paris gallery, would require da Vinci’s presence. Anothen excludes:

• Latter-day replicas.

• Second-generation attempts.

• Well-meaning imitations.

He who did it first must do it again. The original creator recreates his creation. This is the act that Jesus describes.

• Born: God exerts the effort.

• Again: God restores the beauty.

We don’t try again. We need, not the muscle of self, but a miracle of God.

I want to address this, I don't think you know my full background. My roots go back to the Foursquare movement, my family has been in the UPCI or Oneness Pentecostalism for 5 generations or more. I graducated from a UPCI Bible College etc. My graduate degree came from one of 2 Prestigious Baptist Seminaries on the West Coast.

One man who I consider a brilliant mentor is a out right tri-theist in every since of the world. I have no problem believing that he has a relationship with God, the fruit is evident. I have no problem mingling with those who don't see eye to eye with me, I don't every speak ill or down play their faith experience. I accept them as children of the King, but that won't stop me from sharing what I believe to be normative and effectual in regards to the New Birth teaching.

My greatest influence in that regard comes from a British, Trinitarian Bapticostal preacher. While I regard what I teach to be full salvation or full gospel message it is clear that others without the same experience have something significant in their lives, I embrace that, celebrate that and tell them what has happened to me, and why I feel it to be important.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

I want to address this, I don't think you know my full background. My roots go back to the Foursquare movement, my family has been in the UPCI or Oneness Pentecostalism for 5 generations or more. I graducated from a UPCI Bible College etc. My graduate degree came from one of 2 Prestigious Baptist Seminaries on the West Coast.

One man who I consider a brilliant mentor is a out right tri-theist in every since of the world. I have no problem believing that he has a relationship with God, the fruit is evident. I have no problem mingling with those who don't see eye to eye with me, I don't every speak ill or down play their faith experience. I accept them as children of the King, but that won't stop me from sharing what I believe to be normative and effectual in regards to the New Birth teaching.

My greatest influence in that regard comes from a British, Trinitarian Bapticostal preacher. While I regard what I teach to be full salvation or full gospel message it is clear that others without the same experience have something significant in their lives, I embrace that, celebrate that and tell them what has happened to me, and why I feel it to be important.

Do you feel these people are lost?

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Do you feel these people are lost?

You are kidding right?

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Do you feel these people are lost?

No, because ultimately faith saves us, but salvation is a rich full orbed experience. Faith is transforming and leads the truly faith filled person to want to obey.

Without repentance and faith there is no response to the Gospel, without baptism into Christ Jesus then the body of sins remains, without the Spirit no one can overcome the sin nature.

[TJJJ]

Having had extensive jail ministry experience, let me say this! Less than 4-5% are really serious.

For some it is something to pass the time!

For others, they want to look good for their Probation Officer or parole board.

The test for many is what are they willing to give to live for God. That has always been a catylist of whether they were going to stay in a religious program.

Most are in there because their selfishness pushed them to crime! If theyhave some true repentance they will begin to shed that selfishness and that only happens through sacrifice. In the prison system that is few and far between. They like salvation, as long as it does not cost them a thing!

A good lesson for a session, possibly somewhere down the road is John 6.

Just my input!

[KWSS1976]

So no holyghost and speaking in tongues as evidence...

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

So no holyghost and speaking in tongues as evidence...

Could you elaborate further?

[KWSS1976]

where I go to church you have to have the holyghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues to be saved LOL I really myself do not believe this. Plus bro Sam on here says there is a holyghost baptism so thats why I ask the question above which baptism in romans 6:4....