Impeach Obama....

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

Exactly.

Some of you guys like Soun and RevDw, believe that it's our right to imprison people without any chance of ever giving them a trial. I find that in opposition to everything this country has fought and stood for. You certainly don't stand on any legal or ethical high ground.

Why in the world are we afraid to bring them to trial and either prove their guilt or turn them loose? I'm not advocating turning them lose, I'm advocating bringing them to justice.

God spare us the day, where the USA stands for imprisoning people without any intent of ever giving them a fair trial and then the proper consequences either way.

It's this type of NeoCon Republican bull that got the Republican party thrashed in November.

Where have I ever said that? I too believe that should be tried by military tribunal, according to the Geneva convention. And those where finally going forward but where stopped by President Obama.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Hmmmm...maybe he should.....along with ALL the democrats and republicans that voted to go along, looking at the very same evidence..........and throw Bill and Hill in that group as well.........

The voted to grant the President authority to act militarily. They didn't vote on his motives, tactics, long term strategy, or evidence. Essentially by giving him the authority to act...they put the sole responsibility in his lap.

At least Bush stuck to his principals up until he decided to bail out the Money Changers.....

In other words....after all was said and done....he didn't stick to his principles.

President Obama is about to take us all to places we don't really want to go and goodbye Constitution.......

You could be right...but it remains to be seen. It's too early. Mere conjecture.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

I know some men I am glad are not at liberty. And I am not a tyrant.

We all know some men that deserve to be incarcerated. However, this is America...not your fascist little dictatorship. Here's the deal...we operate according to principles that uphold and protect human rights. Our founders saw illegal arrest, detainment, searches, seizures, and quartering an affront to God given liberties. The majority of those detain haven't had their day in court...they've not had due process to prove their guilt. Frankly but detaining them illegally your regime ensured that those deserving detainment be set free...because after all this time we can't prove anything. Thank you oh great right winger.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

God spare us the day, where the USA stands for imprisoning people without any intent of ever giving them a fair trial and then the proper consequences either way.

It's this type of NeoCon Republican bull that got the Republican party thrashed in November.

Welcome to the America these extremists have created. But beware...the Democrats aren't going to do any better. They'll take it further...then the next right wing Republican Administration will take it yet further. They only care about party victory...they don't give a blankety blank about our country. The mindlessly blind ideologues on both sides are full blooded traitors unworthy of the very title...American.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Where have I ever said that? I too believe that should be tried by military tribunal, according to the Geneva convention. And those where finally going forward but where stopped by President Obama.

Yes...Bush finally began moving that direction because it was making the Party look bad...he didn't give a rip about America or our principles.

Secondly, most of these are not soldiers. The Geneva Convention authorizes military tribunals for prisoners of war if they are legitimate military soldiers. Most of these are "citizens" of Iraq or Afghanistan. Most were not official military forces of any nation under the Geneva Convention. Therefore they must be treated as civilian suspects....that requires legal due process in a court of law...not a military tribunal. For example, if we were in Vietnam and took 10 Vietnamese Regulars prisoner, we could try them by military tribunal. If we took civilian Mamma San or any other civilian prisoner we'd have to hand them over to the legal civilian authorities and bring formal charges against them.

By taking and holding these individuals illegally without amassing evidence...we weakened, if not devastated, the chances of actually being able to detain the real bad guys.

This whole thing is another testimony to the Bush Administration's incompetence.

[Aquila]

By the way...you should replace MY Uncle Sam avatar, which you have, with something more fitting...something that represents the views you hold that are a very real and present danger to our country and all that it stands for.

[SOUNWORTHY]

Originally Posted by Aquila

List to me and listen closely.....

If an individual is indeed proven guilty of a terrorist act or of being a military enemy I support their detainment. However...if they haven't been proven guilty of anything through due process it is an affront to the very liberties our founders believed in, God given human rights, and all that is holy to detain them. It's an issue of liberty and human rights. Maybe we should detain you illegally and see if you think differently six years from now. You either love liberty for all men...or you're a tyrant. Take your pick.

Were you in the military? I was.

These are not Americans to be protected by our liberties they are prisoners of a war started by those who killed over 3,000 innocent people.

Yes I was in the military for 5 years. I'm a disabled Korean vet and proud of it!
I didn't serve for the freedom of the Muslims but the freedom of the American people.

[jdm05]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

OBAMA IN 2012

to Gehenna with the Republican party

Obama can run in his place of birth in Kenya in 2012

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by jdm05

Is it too soon to impeach Obama? This guy has not been in office 90 and he has already done so much damage. He talked about "change and hope" but he has already broken so many promises. I understand that some promises have to be broken, but Obama has out done himself. He is a mess if he does not have a teleprompter. Obama is like a robot. I'm sure he now can appreciate the job President Bush did. Being president is not the easiest job. Obama makes Bill Clinton look like the greatest president the United States ever had. LOL!!! I am just so tired of Obama!!! I find it so hard to pray for him but I do. I know some who voted for Obama who know regret it. All I tell them is "I told you so." Obama's hope and change was not enough to convince me to vote for him.

Someone did a bang up job getting Obama elected. I believe the American people are dumb enough and campaign managers slick enough that they can get Labrador Retriever elected president and hype how loyal labs are as long as they could train him to read from a teleprompter...

Is Obama speaking for himself or just reading what some slick spinsters put into a speech for him?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

These are not Americans to be protected by our liberties they are prisoners of a war started by those who killed over 3,000 innocent people.

Yes I was in the military for 5 years. I'm a disabled Korean vet and proud of it!
I didn't serve for the freedom of the Muslims but the freedom of the American people.

Well then, I'd expect you to know better. You see, there's a fundamental disconnect between you and me. You think that our liberties are provided by the Government and since they are not American citizens their liberties don't matter. I hate to inform you...but our founders explicitly taught us the opposite. Our liberties are NOT provided by Government. Our liberties are God given...and God given liberties are for all men regardless of citizenship.

Secondly, most of these are not "Taliban" or "al Queda". Most are Iraqis from various factions and groups who wanted hegemony in Iraq. I know the conservative mind has a short memory and struggles with differentiation...but Iraq never attacked us. Al Queda backed by the Taliban attacked us. Iraq was a war of choice. We expanded the war to include the Iraqis...the records show that while Al Queda was operating in Iraq, Saddam saw them as a threat to his power and was launching his own operations to suppress them. Saddam was a secularist who used religion as a tool....he highly distrusted Wahabbist Islam and the religious extremists.

*Interesting note here. Under Saddam things were bad...but things are regressing in Iraq. For example magistrates could be female under Saddam...not so now. Fundamentalist religious factions now have a say in the Iraqi government. My prediction....when we leave...rather in two years or 10 years...religious fundementalists will seize power using democracy. They will manipulate the people religiously to get their votes. Iraq will be a greater threat in 10 years than it ever was under Saddam's secularist socialist dictatorship.