Talking point: Life expectancy/Healthcare rebuttal
Talking point: Life expectancy = Healthcare rebuttal
So Walks in Islam has proven his capacity to regurgitate the Liberal mantra that America needs healthcare reform because the Brits live longer than us.
The argument liberals make is that America doesn’t have a better healthcare system than those industrialized countries that have nationalized healthcare because they live longer than we do.
Let me be kind. It’s Hooey! It’s a pile of Pelosi!
Sure Healthcare is one factor in a nation’s life expectancy. If a country can’t supply basic services, you die from getting a nail in your foot. But healthcare is just one factor. AND it isn’t even the major factor! I doubt anyone would suggest that Haiti has a healthcare system that is twice as good as Swaziland but if you live in Haiti you can expect to live twice as long! There are other factors. In Swaziland, such a large portion of the adult population has AIDS that their life expectancy as a nation is below 32 years. This is less about the healthcare system than it is about a nation of people who have a culture that is rife with dangerous sexual behavior. It is killing that nation!
Additionally America ranks well behind some European nations in infant mortality. Studies have shown that while in some instances this is true, it is also true that America considers every live birth including those that aren’t viable where some European countries don’t consider these births in their figures. Each nation is responsible for their own statistics and some of this variation is a result of the methodology used.
Further a much larger portion of the puzzle that is a nation’s Life expectancy is more closely aligned with the lifestyle in that nation. The French walk everywhere. Americans are virtually sedentary. Americans consume vastly more red meat than most other nations, Americans eat vastly more calories than most other nations, Americans eat vastly more calories from fat than other nations. Study after study proves that caloric intake is actually the key indicator for longevity and that doesn’t mean the more you eat the longer you live!
But let’s consider things that matter to the average person.
If you are 53 years old and your doctor tells you, you need a hip replacement do you want to live in America or Brittan? Remember, the liberals want you to focus on the fact that Brits live about 11 months longer than Americans….
BUT if you are 53 and need a hip replacement, you wait 6 months to a year in the UK to get it.
In America you wait 16 days.
Who has the better Healthcare?
If you are a woman in America and you are diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer, you and your doctor decide your course of treatment and that treatment begins almost immediately. If you live in the UK a board makes a decision and treatment is often delayed for as much as 6 months. In many instances that board can decide that your cancer is too advanced and the cost benefit for treating you doesn’t make financial sense. In that case you are denied the treatment.
Who has the better Healthcare? American Liberals want you to focus on the fact that the Brits outlive us by 11 months…. But if you are 33 years old and have a couple of little ones at home, and your doctor tells you, that you have breast cancer I suspect all the sudden that 11 month difference at the age of 79 seems an awful long way off and not entirely relevant to your situation.
If you live in Canada and break an ankle (like our own Brother Ron) you have to get approval from some bureaucratic board to have surgery. It can take months to get that approval and by then, your ankle will heal wrong and make surgery both more difficult and less successful. In America, you and our doctor decide the treatment and you get surgery before the body messes things up. Now the good news in Canada, the Government mandates that the company you work for has to keep right on paying you while you aren’t working and the government is deciding if you get surgery so you will likely be just fine sitting at home. But consider the economic impact of that? It’s NUTS.
You tell me who has the better healthcare?
Then consider if you live in any of these countries with nationalized healthcare, if you need to go to Physical Therapy, you have to get a government bureaucrat to determine if you get to go, when you can go and where you go. In America, you and your doctor decide, you make a call and go see the PT that week.
Anybody gonna try to suggest that the guys begging some bureaucrat for some PT time has better Healthcare?
Not ME!
So the bottom line, Healthcare and Life expectancy are not directly related. There are so many other factors that impact a person’s life expectancy… Things as varied as what they eat, how much time they spend in a car, how their country collects mortality data…. Healthcare is just one in a very long list of things that matter when it comes to figuring out who is going to live longer.
Now all you Pelosites, stick that in your corncob pipe and smoke it!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Re: Talking point: Life expectancy/Healthcare rebu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
Talking point: Life expectancy = Healthcare rebuttal
So Walks in Islam has proven his capacity to regurgitate the Liberal mantra that America needs healthcare reform because the Brits live longer than us.
The argument liberals make is that America doesn’t have a better healthcare system than those industrialized countries that have nationalized healthcare because they live longer than we do.
Let me be kind. It’s Hooey! It’s a pile of Pelosi!
Sure Healthcare is one factor in a nation’s life expectancy. If a country can’t supply basic services, you die from getting a nail in your foot. But healthcare is just one factor. AND it isn’t even the major factor! I doubt anyone would suggest that Haiti has a healthcare system that is twice as good as Swaziland but if you live in Haiti you can expect to live twice as long! There are other factors. In Swaziland, such a large portion of the adult population has AIDS that their life expectancy as a nation is below 32 years. This is less about the healthcare system than it is about a nation of people who have a culture that is rife with dangerous sexual behavior. It is killing that nation!
Additionally America ranks well behind some European nations in infant mortality. Studies have shown that while in some instances this is true, it is also true that America considers every live birth including those that aren’t viable where some European countries don’t consider these births in their figures. Each nation is responsible for their own statistics and some of this variation is a result of the methodology used.
Further a much larger portion of the puzzle that is a nation’s Life expectancy is more closely aligned with the lifestyle in that nation. The French walk everywhere. Americans are virtually sedentary. Americans consume vastly more red meat than most other nations, Americans eat vastly more calories than most other nations, Americans eat vastly more calories from fat than other nations. Study after study proves that caloric intake is actually the key indicator for longevity and that doesn’t mean the more you eat the longer you live!
But let’s consider things that matter to the average person.
If you are 53 years old and your doctor tells you, you need a hip replacement do you want to live in America or Brittan? Remember, the liberals want you to focus on the fact that Brits live about 11 months longer than Americans….
BUT if you are 53 and need a hip replacement, you wait 6 months to a year in the UK to get it.
In America you wait 16 days.
Who has the better Healthcare?
If you are a woman in America and you are diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer, you and your doctor decide your course of treatment and that treatment begins almost immediately. If you live in the UK a board makes a decision and treatment is often delayed for as much as 6 months. In many instances that board can decide that your cancer is too advanced and the cost benefit for treating you doesn’t make financial sense. In that case you are denied the treatment.
Who has the better Healthcare? American Liberals want you to focus on the fact that the Brits outlive us by 11 months…. But if you are 33 years old and have a couple of little ones at home, and your doctor tells you, that you have breast cancer I suspect all the sudden that 11 month difference at the age of 79 seems an awful long way off and not entirely relevant to your situation.
If you live in Canada and break an ankle (like our own Brother Ron) you have to get approval from some bureaucratic board to have surgery. It can take months to get that approval and by then, your ankle will heal wrong and make surgery both more difficult and less successful. In America, you and our doctor decide the treatment and you get surgery before the body messes things up. Now the good news in Canada, the Government mandates that the company you work for has to keep right on paying you while you aren’t working and the government is deciding if you get surgery so you will likely be just fine sitting at home. But consider the economic impact of that? It’s NUTS.
You tell me who has the better healthcare?
Then consider if you live in any of these countries with nationalized healthcare, if you need to go to Physical Therapy, you have to get a government bureaucrat to determine if you get to go, when you can go and where you go. In America, you and your doctor decide, you make a call and go see the PT that week.
Anybody gonna try to suggest that the guys begging some bureaucrat for some PT time has better Healthcare?
Not ME!
So the bottom line, Healthcare and Life expectancy are not directly related. There are so many other factors that impact a person’s life expectancy… Things as varied as what they eat, how much time they spend in a car, how their country collects mortality data…. Healthcare is just one in a very long list of things that matter when it comes to figuring out who is going to live longer.
Now all you Pelosites, stick that in your corncob pipe and smoke it!
I agree with you that there are other factors in life expectancy than just available health care. The cultures and lifestyle habits of the different countries are a big part of the equation.
What bothers me is the fact that we spend more per person than the Brits and Candians yet are lower in success rates with health care.
Also, the Canadian system isn't even being proposed here. That's apples to oranges.
I think it's funny that the Canadian system is always pointed to as the boogieman, but 70% of Canadians in a recent poll said their healtcare system is working well or very well. I guess they don't realize how bad they have it.
Re: Talking point: Life expectancy/Healthcare rebu
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeinAR
I agree with you that there are other factors in life expectancy than just available health care. The cultures and lifestyle habits of the different countries are a big part of the equation.
What bothers me is the fact that we spend more per person than the Brits and Candians yet are lower in success rates with health care.
Also, the Canadian system isn't even being proposed here. That's apples to oranges.
I think it's funny that the Canadian system is always pointed to as the boogieman, but 70% of Canadians in a recent poll said their healtcare system is working well or very well. I guess they don't realize how bad they have it.
Re: Talking point: Life expectancy/Healthcare rebu
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeinAR
I'm calling success what 70% of the Canadians who actually live under the plan call success.
Bro better than 80% of Americans rate their personal healthcare as postive.
so Im not sure we agree on what success is.
personally I think the American system is in serious need of fixing some very broken things. I think most of us agree on that.
that doesnt mean I want a system that puts some government employee between me and my doctor. will dry up the number of specialists that are available (google barak obama's views on that subject)
create a government option. There is NEVER a day when a government option is a good idea. It is impossible to have a level playing field for the government to compete fairly with private industry. dude, the government makes the rules!
Reform yes, stupid reform NO!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Re: Talking point: Life expectancy/Healthcare rebu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
What are you calling success?
because I think 16 day wait for a hip replacement for Americans is vastly better than waiting 6 months or more.
You are talking hip replacement. My dad's fractured femoral head was broken before noon on Saturday and he was out of recovery by 1 pm on Sunday. My aunt and Uncle near Winterpeg were around 4 day wait before surgery on a fracture.(which has ugly risk of getting an embolism) Mike doesn't understand medicine. The earlier orthopaedic work is done, the actual shorter duration of rehab.
When Mike used the word "success". That had a different meaning in Canada. in the course of invasive and non invasive cardiovascular work, they do so much less because it costs the state money. They in other words take younger and stronger patients and the rest get put off. The number and scope of Electro physiology labs in canada is pathetic
Endocardial and epicardial ablations are rare in Canadia.
Re: Talking point: Life expectancy/Healthcare rebu
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeinAR
I agree with you that there are other factors in life expectancy than just available health care. The cultures and lifestyle habits of the different countries are a big part of the equation.
What bothers me is the fact that we spend more per person than the Brits and Candians yet are lower in success rates with health care.
Also, the Canadian system isn't even being proposed here. That's apples to oranges.
I think it's funny that the Canadian system is always pointed to as the boogieman, but 70% of Canadians in a recent poll said their healtcare system is working well or very well. I guess they don't realize how bad they have it.
During the past 30 years, about 19,000 physicians trained in Canada have crossed the border into the United States and depleted the Canadian supply of physicians in the process, says the study, which was conducted by the AAFP's Robert Graham Center, the department of pediatrics at New York University and the department of family medicine at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario. According to "The Canadian Contribution to the U.S. Physician Workforce," in 2006, 8,162 Canadian-educated physicians were providing direct patient care in the United States. That figure accounts for about one in nine Canadian-trained physicians, which is equivalent to having two average-sized Canadian medical schools dedicated entirely to producing physicians for the United States
So Mike. I suspect the docs know more about Canadian healthcare than do the newspapers or yourself.
Stick with arkansas.
I deal with my relatives that live in Canada and some winter in the states. They find a comparison from experience. U S IS far better. If we survey Canadians on how satisfied they are with the Weather , we may also get 70% like it. Part of the massive exodus of docs comes from an exodus of technicians. With rationed care, the salaries are so low and they can get jobs in the states. The docs complain they can't get enough qualified technicians to help.
19,000 docs. If we snag socialized medicine, a lot will retire or return.
http://www.cindyklassen.com/
My Mennonite relative gets great healthcare. So does my daughter who is an NCAA all American contender. My daughters throwing coach from Russia went to the Olympics and told me he got the best healthcare in Russia.
Re: Talking point: Life expectancy/Healthcare rebu
Actually we have more insurance companies with Actuaries in america than the rest of the world. They gather all kinds of data. Most libs have no idea what a real actuary does and the math required to do it is far beyond them.
1 Unintentional Injury 1542 37.32%
* MV Traffic 874 21.15%
* Drowning 162 3.92%
* Fire/burn 101 2.44%
* Other Land Transport 80 1.94%
* Suffocation 70 1.69%
* Firearm 34 0.82%
* Poisoning 28 0.68%
* Other Transport 27 0.65%
* Pedestrian, Other 26 0.63%
* Fall 24 0.58%
* Struck by or Against 22 0.53%
* Other Spec., classifiable 20 0.48%
* Pedal cyclist, Other 19 0.46%
* Unspecified 19 0.46%
* Other Spec., NEC 12 0.29%
* Machinery 11 0.27%
* Natural/ Environment 11 0.27%
* Cut/pierce 2 0.05%
2 Malignant Neoplasms 535 12.95%
3 Suicide 260 6.29%
4 Congenital Anomalies 218 5.28%
5 Homicide 216 5.23%
6 Heart Disease 163 3.94%
7 Chronic Respiratory Disease 95 2.30%
8 Cerebrovascular 58 1.40%
9 Influenza & Pneumonia 53 1.28%
10 Septicemia
causes of death america kids ages 10-14.
This has little relationsip with what kind of hospital is near by. It has about zero to do with Socialized medicine.
Now Obama care will make it official. A hospital will have to apply for permision to build and expand.
Hybrid Mode
