Tithing…Is it a command?

[good samaritan]

tithing is a good system of giving, but I wouldn't tell anyone they were being displeasing to God if they don't. I hope people strongly consider it when they give each week though. Being a weekly spiritual led giver as God prospers us is a heaven or hell issue, but God is the one deciding not us. I don't want to make people less fortunate feel like that it doesn't matter what they give, because God may be testing their faith in Him.
I don't think this subject is as black and white as many here make it. We must teach giving to our churches and we must show every biblical example of it presented in scripture(including tithing) and then teach people to let God lead them to give with a personal conviction. To the rich and the poor God desires our faith in Him. Those who are ministering for filthy lucre will one day be judged, but we still must be spirit led givers. That means 100% not just 10%.

[good samaritan]

I am not advocating tithing or hell preaching, but I do feel we need to be sacrificial givers. It seems that most here argue tithing being unbiblical; do it from the standpoint that it is too much for some people to give. Why don't you ever make the argument that tithing is limiting people's giving. So many people limit their giving to ten percent. If I was going to argue against tithe teaching I think I would be promoting to do more not less.

I fear after these last generations of tithers move off the scenes churches are going to suffer. Again I don't advocate tithing as a heaven/hell issue, but sacrificial giving I do. I don't think it is any easier for the rich to give than the poor. I would never want to oppress the widow and the fatherless, but I wouldn't want to rob them of trusting God in giving.

The story of Elijah telling the widow woman to bake him first a cake seems selfish, but because of her obedience the Lord provided for her through the time of famine. There is a supernatural expectation many tithers have. I give my tithes for two reasons:

1) honor to God for what he has prospered me. Whatever income I receive I want to express to God that He is the one who provides it and I am thankful.

2)To show that I trust him to provide for me in the future. I give tithes sometimes when it is financially unrealistic, but I do it anyway to demonstrate my faith in Him. He always provides.

I know people who tithe with conviction who I have seen about to loose their home. I wouldn't dare try to convince them tithing is unscriptural when God may be working out something with their faith. I didn't convince them to start tithing and I am not going to try to convince them to stop. I will try to be there to help them were I can and look forward to hear their testimony when all is finished. I hope all those on here that argue against the tithe are not reaping from it. If you oppose tithe teaching than don't accept tithers money at your church because those people who tithe do so because someone has taught them to. They are probably the ones providing for your churches, for those who are attending at church buildings

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You KNOW what I mean. Why hide behind skewed logic? When you're nuclear family is needing to rely on food banks and utilities are at risk from being shut off... one has denied the faith and is worse than an infidel.

Your first obligation is to your home. They are the believers immediately under your care.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I know people who tithe with conviction who I have seen about to loose their home. I wouldn't dare try to convince them tithing is unscriptural when God may be working out something with their faith. I didn't convince them to start tithing and I am not going to try to convince them to stop. I will try to be there to help them were I can and look forward to hear their testimony when all is finished.

Aquila's post is the answer to this snipped post from good samaritan. I fear too many have been taught to tithe for the wrong reasons and it is engraved in them. If they're tithing to get out of a financial mess, they're setting themselves up for failure. I say this because they're now relying on what their doing, the works of the law, to try to gain favor from the Lord. Hear me out, they can still pay their bills and give sacrificially (maybe less than 10%) while denying themselves of some of the common luxuries IE cell phone, cable tv, dry cleaning, dining out, whatever. However, if they give their tithes first and don't have money for their bills, they're bringing reproach upon themselves in the eyes of the lender. Yes to giving cheerfully, yes to giving sacrificially, but we are to take care of our families. If you default on a loan, you are a covenant breaker and have not lived up to the promise you made to pay that bill.

[Esphes45]

Originally Posted by obriencp

Aquila's post is the answer to this snipped post from good samaritan. I fear too many have been taught to tithe for the wrong reasons and it is engraved in them. If they're tithing to get out of a financial mess, they're setting themselves up for failure. I say this because they're now relying on what their doing, the works of the law, to try to gain favor from the Lord. Hear me out, they can still pay their bills and give sacrificially (maybe less than 10%) while denying themselves of some of the common luxuries IE cell phone, cable tv, dry cleaning, dining out, whatever. However, if they give their tithes first and don't have money for their bills, they're bringing reproach upon themselves in the eyes of the lender. Yes to giving cheerfully, yes to giving sacrificially, but we are to take care of our families. If you default on a loan, you are a covenant breaker and have not lived up to the promise you made to pay that bill.

It is starting to seem like people are saying tithing and sacrificial giving are the same thing?

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by Esphes45

It is starting to seem like people are saying tithing and sacrificial giving are the same thing?

they can be the same, but don't have to be. For some, 10% is a sacrifice for others not so much.

I'm not anti-giving (I don't know how many times I can reiterate that), but giving a mandatory 10% to the local church when you can't even pay your bills is not right. Let me add a caveat that we are to be good stewards of our money and we have to make sure we aren't being foolish with our money. But some people who have fallen on hard times who can't make ends meet and pay tithes need to be able to find mercy from their church. The last thing people need when their struggling financially is a pastor dangling them over hell if they don't give their tithes first.

Some have no problem giving 10%, but you don't see them in prayer meeting, helping out at functions, participating in outreach, etc. Cheerfully giving has more to do with it than money.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by obriencp

Aquila's post is the answer to this snipped post from good samaritan. I fear too many have been taught to tithe for the wrong reasons and it is engraved in them. If they're tithing to get out of a financial mess, they're setting themselves up for failure. I say this because they're now relying on what their doing, the works of the law, to try to gain favor from the Lord. Hear me out, they can still pay their bills and give sacrificially (maybe less than 10%) while denying themselves of some of the common luxuries IE cell phone, cable tv, dry cleaning, dining out, whatever. However, if they give their tithes first and don't have money for their bills, they're bringing reproach upon themselves in the eyes of the lender. Yes to giving cheerfully, yes to giving sacrificially, but we are to take care of our families. If you default on a loan, you are a covenant breaker and have not lived up to the promise you made to pay that bill.

I am not saying that I would tell people to default on their mortgage in order to give to God. Most people that are in bad financial situations are because of management not because of having to give to God. I can say I personally believe that probably 90% of those who struggle financially it is management issues. People have to have all the luxuries possible and if they got it they may put a dollar in the pan.

houses nicer than they can afford- $500-600rent vs. $800-1200+
cars nicer than they can afford- $2500 or less vs. $10,000 or more
internet - doing without it vs. $50mo.
satellite T.V. - doing without it vs. $50mo.
smart phones - doing without it vs. $75mo. per line
vacations - doing without it vs. $2,000 annually

I know I'm meddling now, but really I don't know why we call people poor that are able to afford these things. When the Bible refers to the widows and the fatherless I don't picture them watching a big screen with 100+ channels, but they were actually facing malnutrition and starvation. We say we don't have anything to eat when we run out of the foods we like in the fridge. Many say they shouldn't give ten percent to God, but if you looked at their expenses each mo. you would find that they spend far more than ten percent on things they want that is not necessary.

Would you all agree that where your treasures are there is were your heart will be also. Maybe there is some situations where people are truly poor and can't afford to give, but most in this nation just aren't willing to get out of their comfort zones.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I am not saying that I would tell people to default on their mortgage in order to give to God. Most people that are in bad financial situations are because of management not because of having to give to God. I can say I personally believe that probably 90% of those who struggle financially it is management issues. People have to have all the luxuries possible and if they got it they may put a dollar in the pan.

houses nicer than they can afford- $500-600rent vs. $800-1200+
cars nicer than they can afford- $2500 or less vs. $10,000 or more
internet - doing without it vs. $50mo.
satellite T.V. - doing without it vs. $50mo.
smart phones - doing without it vs. $75mo. per line
vacations - doing without it vs. $2,000 annually

I know I'm meddling now, but really I don't know why we call people poor that are able to afford these things. When the Bible refers to the widows and the fatherless I don't picture them watching a big screen with 100+ channels, but they were actually facing malnutrition and starvation. We say we don't have anything to eat when we run out of the foods we like in the fridge. Many say they shouldn't give ten percent to God, but if you looked at their expenses each mo. you would find that they spend far more than ten percent on things they want that is not necessary.

Would you all agree that where your treasures are there is were your heart will be also. Maybe there is some situations where people are truly poor and can't afford to give, but most in this nation just aren't willing to get out of their comfort zones.

I agree with much of what you say here. We Americans strap ourselves with debt to uphold a certain lifestyle when with just a little patience we could have the same lifestyle and not be in so much debt. It's hard not to have a mortgage, but some of this other stuff we could buy it used for cash and still maintain a nice living. Part of our obsession with materialism causes us to have to send mom to work when she should be home with the kids. Ah but then we might have to have a 1200 SF home instead of and 1800 SF home! God forbid!

Now having said all of that, I know many pastors who would not like their sheep to hear this message of "downsizing" because it might result in Christians living on less income but less income might mean less tithes! And all of this correction we are dishing out here towards church embers on downsizing needs also to be addressed to some pastors who build fancy church buildings that strap the people of God with debt, all for their own egos. The latter is why many preachers do harp on tithing.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I agree with much of what you say here. We Americans strap ourselves with debt to uphold a certain lifestyle when with just a little patience we could have the same lifestyle and not be in so much debt. It's hard not to have a mortgage, but some of this other stuff we could buy it used for cash and still maintain a nice living. Part of our obsession with materialism causes us to have to send mom to work when she should be home with the kids. Ah but then we might have to have a 1200 SF home instead of and 1800 SF home! God forbid!

Now having said all of that, I know many pastors who would not like their sheep to hear this message of "downsizing" because it might result in Christians living on less income but less income might mean less tithes! And all of this correction we are dishing out here towards church embers on downsizing needs also to be addressed to some pastors who build fancy church buildings that strap the people of God with debt, all for their own egos. The latter is why many preachers do harp on tithing.

I am a pastor and recently I was talking to someone about people living extravagantly( it had nothing to do with giving), and the many times it bothers others when they see someone else doing well. This man that I was talking to was car mechanic and he owns a 2013 corvette and 2010 escalade and lives in a nice home. He said that he felt many don't bring their business there because they think he is doing things crooked because of his possessions.

I feel that as a minister I would not own a corvette or other luxury vehicles even if it was something I could afford having. As a pastor I live in a glass house and people are watching me and how I conduct myself. Living modestly in every area is important not only because it frees up our finances, but it also keeps us free of reproach that hurts our witness. Christian living is Christian giving.

Also our church isn't much over 1200sf, but it is paid for and we are growing. We should not be so weighted down with paying for a building that we can't make wise investments to promote the gospel. I know many churches who probably hurt there witness always having fundraisers ever time you turn around. If we evangelize, establish, and equip people the church body will grow and the bigger building will be needed. It is about souls not buildings and I think most tithe teachers and spirit led giving teachers agree about this.

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I am not saying that I would tell people to default on their mortgage in order to give to God. Most people that are in bad financial situations are because of management not because of having to give to God. I can say I personally believe that probably 90% of those who struggle financially it is management issues. People have to have all the luxuries possible and if they got it they may put a dollar in the pan.

houses nicer than they can afford- $500-600rent vs. $800-1200+
cars nicer than they can afford- $2500 or less vs. $10,000 or more
internet - doing without it vs. $50mo.
satellite T.V. - doing without it vs. $50mo.
smart phones - doing without it vs. $75mo. per line
vacations - doing without it vs. $2,000 annually

I know I'm meddling now, but really I don't know why we call people poor that are able to afford these things. When the Bible refers to the widows and the fatherless I don't picture them watching a big screen with 100+ channels, but they were actually facing malnutrition and starvation. We say we don't have anything to eat when we run out of the foods we like in the fridge. Many say they shouldn't give ten percent to God, but if you looked at their expenses each mo. you would find that they spend far more than ten percent on things they want that is not necessary.

Would you all agree that where your treasures are there is were your heart will be also. Maybe there is some situations where people are truly poor and can't afford to give, but most in this nation just aren't willing to get out of their comfort zones.

i'm with you. My point was the people that will charge gas and groceries onto their credit cards, be late on the bills they can't charge all because they've been taught that they're cursed if they don't tithe. I also agree that most people have put themselves in a situation, but there are those that get ill or laid-off. Over 50% of americans live paycheck to paycheck... that means half of us are one paycheck from disaster. Some of that is overspending and some of that is our economy. Getting behind or putting yourself in debt to keep the preacher happy is not the right approach.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by obriencp

i'm with you. My point was the people that will charge gas and groceries onto their credit cards, be late on the bills they can't charge all because they've been taught that they're cursed if they don't tithe. I also agree that most people have put themselves in a situation, but there are those that get ill or laid-off. Over 50% of americans live paycheck to paycheck... that means half of us are one paycheck from disaster. Some of that is overspending and some of that is our economy. Getting behind or putting yourself in debt to keep the preacher happy is not the right approach.

agreed. if you give it to make a man happy you have missed it.

Lk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts:for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God