Tithing…Is it a command?

[Rudy]

Well, we know the overseers in the beginning did not teach tithing money, food, or anything else. I wonder why these orgs require it taught?

We just keep going in circles over this issue. No forced tithing people launch out and start a work. Most pro-tithers of money will not stop teaching it and many saints are too afraid to stop.

These orgs are clubs that require tithes of money. It's their club and that's what they require. Want to join the Amish? Ok, men grow a beard--club rules!

Non-tithers start a work.

[good samaritan]

Truth can be treason when going against tradition. Tithing money is just to big for them to stop.

I don't say that people commit treason for believing diferent views than me. Tithing shouldn't be stopped, but it shouldn't be taught as a NT commandment and pastors shouldn't use fear tactics like the curse in Malachi that I agree most preachers use out of context. To teach weekly giving as God prospers to the assembly you are a part of is what the NT commands and that is a command. Tithing is just a good application of that. It is a choice and it has worked well for the local church. I am sorry for the many times people who have been driven from the church because of the wrong way it has been taught. The wheat and the tares still will come up together.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I don't say that people commit treason for believing diferent views than me. Tithing shouldn't be stopped, but it shouldn't be taught as a NT commandment and pastors shouldn't use fear tactics like the curse in Malachi that I agree most preachers use out of context. To teach weekly giving as God prospers to the assembly you are a part of is what the NT commands and that is a command. Tithing is just a good application of that. It is a choice and it has worked well for the local church. I am sorry for the many times people who have been driven from the church because of the wrong way it has been taught. The wheat and the tares still will come up together.

Respectfully I don't see a weekly giving command. Paul told them to lay something aside weekly so that when he came they would have something substantial to give for a need and not have to take up a collection when he came. This collection was for the saints in Jerusalem. Paul already came and took the gift. No need to keep laying something aside for the saints in Jerusalem. Paul came and took it.

The Collection for the Saints

16 Now concerning[a] the collection for the saints: as I directed the churches of Galatia, so you also are to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come. 3 And when I arrive, I will send those whom you accredit by letter to carry your gift to Jerusalem. 4 If it seems advisable that I should go also, they will accompany me.

[good samaritan]

Respectfully I don't see a weekly giving command. Paul told them to lay something aside weekly so that when he came they would have something substantial to give for a need and not have to take up a collection when he came. This collection was for the saints in Jerusalem. Paul already came and took the gift. No need to keep laying something aside for the saints in Jerusalem. Paul came and took it.

I take it you are anti-assembly. the weekly collections are taken and are used for the assembly's benefit. If this forum is the extent of your church fellowship I don't think you are following the apostles doctrine. Paul established churches in Galatia, Corinthian, Ephesus, etc. He never wanted any of these city's churches to be seperated in different sects and no doubt they had gathering places then. The upper room on the day of Pentecost was a building structure wasn't it.

What about the collections taken in Jerusalem that went for the church there when it was first started. you find the first account of a deacon board being set up to care for the neglected widows through church proceeds so that the apostles and early church ministers could concern their selves with prayer and study. you have said earlier that someone needs to start a non tithe church org. , but if you don't even believe in weekly giving that won't ever be an option.

You may be a giving person, I don't know you personally. Some of your arguments may not be self serving and your main reason for your stance maybe honorable. No matter how poor or how rich people are if they have God in their hearts giving will never be a major issue. 1 cor. 13 is the love chapter. K.J.V. appropriately uses the word charity for the Greek word agape. Charity is love in action. When you love your giving knows no ends. If you don't trust any kind of Church government you can find in the NT that it was established by God.

Many of the web sites you have read against the non-biblical teaching of forced tithing is probably written by paid church staff. Who have only been able to afford the time to do a lot of their studies because of church financial support. If you think for a minute that the apostles received no financial support you are mistaken.

Paul may have not have received a weekly salary, but he was still being supported very much through church offerings. The economy in the early church probably was very different from the way we live in the USA. We probably could do so much more instead of so much less.

[Rudy]

[QUOTE=good samaritan;1337571]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Respectfully I don't see a weekly giving command. Paul told them to lay something aside weekly so that when he came they would have something substantial to give for a need and not have to take up a collection when he came. This collection was for the saints in Jerusalem. Paul already came and took the gift. No need to keep laying something aside for the saints in Jerusalem. Paul came and took it.

The Collection for the Saints

I take it you are anti-assembly. the weekly collections are taken and are used for the assembly's benefit. If this forum is the extent of your church fellowship I don't think you are following the apostles doctrine. Paul established churches in Galatia, Corinthian, Ephesus, etc. He never wanted any of these city's churches to be seperated in different sects and no doubt they had gathering places then. The upper room on the day of Pentecost was a building structure wasn't it.

What about the collections taken in Jerusalem that went for the church there when it was first started. you find the first account of a deacon board being set up to care for the neglected widows through church proceeds so that the apostles and early church ministers could concern their selves with prayer and study. you have said earlier that someone needs to start a non tithe church org. , but if you don't even believe in weekly giving that won't ever be an option.

You may be a giving person, I don't know you personally. Some of your arguments may not be self serving and your main reason for your stance maybe honorable. No matter how poor or how rich people are if they have God in their hearts giving will never be a major issue. 1 cor. 13 is the love chapter. K.J.V. appropriately uses the word charity for the Greek word agape. Charity is love in action. When you love your giving knows no ends. If you don't trust any kind of Church government you can find in the NT that it was established by God.

Many of the web sites you have read against the non-biblical teaching of forced tithing is probably written by paid church staff. Who have only been able to afford the time to do a lot of their studies because of church financial support. If you think for a minute that the apostles received no financial support you are mistaken.

Paul may have not have received a weekly salary, but he was still being supported very much through church offerings. The economy in the early church probably was very different from the way we live in the USA. We probably could do so much more instead of so much less.

Not against assembling or tithing.

[Esphes45]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

...He never wanted any of these city's churches to be seperated in different sects...

I wish we could have an 87 page discussion on that very point.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Respectfully I don't see a weekly giving command. Paul told them to lay something aside weekly so that when he came they would have something substantial to give for a need and not have to take up a collection when he came. This collection was for the saints in Jerusalem. Paul already came and took the gift. No need to keep laying something aside for the saints in Jerusalem. Paul came and took it.

The Collection for the Saints

16 Now concerning[a] the collection for the saints: as I directed the churches of Galatia, so you also are to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come. 3 And when I arrive, I will send those whom you accredit by letter to carry your gift to Jerusalem. 4 If it seems advisable that I should go also, they will accompany me.

Rudy your are spot on. There is no command for weekly giving as a general practice for the church. Paul was speaking of an offering being collected for a particular need. Ignore those who are mocking you for pointing this out.

The modern church has allot of overhead expense that the early church would not have comprehended. We choose to own our own building, get into debt, strap the people of God with a mortgage and pay a salary to a pastor and staff members. I'm not saying these things are wrong. But they do create stress that contributes to the twisting of scripture to come up with an unbiblical tax or membership dues for the saints. I wish these churches would just be honest and tell people that to be an official member with all the amenities, one must pay membership dues. Those who don't pay can visit as often as they like, but they will receive no amenities.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I don't say that people commit treason for believing diferent views than me. Tithing shouldn't be stopped, but it shouldn't be taught as a NT commandment and pastors shouldn't use fear tactics like the curse in Malachi that I agree most preachers use out of context. To teach weekly giving as God prospers to the assembly you are a part of is what the NT commands and that is a command. Tithing is just a good application of that. It is a choice and it has worked well for the local church. I am sorry for the many times people who have been driven from the church because of the wrong way it has been taught. The wheat and the tares still will come up together.

The problem is the tares that are behind the pulpit..LOL

[Aquila]

Research the history of tithing. It will prove that it is a Roman Catholic innovation carried over by the Protestants. And it wasn't even fully embraced within "Christian" circles until the 700's.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Research the history of tithing. It will prove that it is a Roman Catholic innovation carried over by the Protestants. And it wasn't even fully embraced within "Christian" circles until the 700's.

I have done the research first in my Bible and then in several historical writtings. I agree that if the early church taught tithing it was never mentioned in the scripture. They only taught to give and the examples they left for us were with much liberality. I don't know anyone who is giving on their level.

History said that the catholic church began tithing at multiple different dates (which I believe) depending on which sources you are pulling from. I have seen tithing taught in a way that I feel is not of God, but I don't believe that teaching a tithing commitment is wrong but instead is good. We are not bound by the law of Moses today in his commands of animals clean and unclean for us to eat, but I believe most would agree that if we kept the law for health purposes we would live healthier lives.

I think you have misunderstood me if you have thought that I was saying tithing was a NT command all through church history. I am not sure what all was specifically taught in the early church. I am sure there has been many messages Paul preached that was not in scripture, but I believe everything is there that is supposed to be. Tithing is good, but the best thing is to be led by the Holy Ghost in all of your financial decisions.