The necessity of Matt 28:19 & 1 John 5:7

TGBTG · #1 04-17-2011, 02:29 PM

With all these ideas on various threads about the Son not being God himself, I believe it is important to realize that Jesus himself informs us of the absolute Deity of the Son of the God.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

See, we are to:

1. Teach all nations
2. Baptize disciples

in the NAME of the Father, Son, and the HolyGhost. The Father, Son, and HolyGhost are all put on the same level by Jesus Christ.

Again,
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Again, we see that the Word is Deity.

So all these talk about the Son just being a man (or some anointed man) and not God himself is absolutely in contradiction of Matt 28:19 and 1 John 5:7.

For those who dispute Isaiah 9:6 and say "his name shall be called everlasting Father" does not mean he is the everlasting Father, well let's take an example:

When you were born, your parents said "his name shall be called John."

When you were growing up, didn't your family call you John? didn't your friends call you John? So how then shall we not call Jesus Christ the EVERLATSTING FATHER.

The bible says "his name shall be called..." In other words, that is what he will be called

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Is Jesus the Prince of Peace? No doubt!
Is Jesus Wonderful? No doubt!

Sure enough, he is The Mighty God (not just "Mighty God"), but The Mighty God.
He is the Everlasting Father, and He is definitely the counsellor.

The SON is THE MIGHTY GOD, Amen!!!

Note: Just give any unbeliever Isaiah 9:6 and even they can see that the Son spoken about in that scripture bears the name conferred on him in that scripture.

coadie · #2 04-17-2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are

My old German bible just says

7Denn drei sind, die da zeugen: der Geist und das Wasser und das Blut;

8und die drei sind beisammen
Spirit water and blood. Some Engrish version must have need to help the scripture and added Father Son and Holy Ghost.

Dark Energy · #3 04-17-2011, 03:42 PM

I don't see the necessity since there are plenty of other verses. However 1Jn is a well known interpolation and as written would just as easily support the trinity

Now on "name". Daniel Segraves made an excellent point about name. Names in the bible are personal. They describe something about the person. Jesus is our savior. He is Jehovah salvation.

Name is an idiomatic way of referring to persons. If you speak the name of Jesus you are speaking of that person. (see Acts 1:15 where the word name is used for persons and Rev 3:4)

There is One name. There is One Person. In the end of all things God says there will be one Yahweh and His name One

Zec 14:9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one.

Zec 14:9 The Lord will then be king over all the earth. In that day the Lord will be seen as one with a single name.

NET
16 sn The expression the Lord will be seen as one with a single name is an unmistakable reference to the so-called Shema, the crystallized statement of faith in the Lord as the covenant God of Israel (cf. Deu_6:4-5). Zechariah, however, universalizes the extent of the Lord's dominion--he will be "king over all the earth."

kclee4jc · #4 04-17-2011, 08:00 PM

No sir the Son is not God. If the Son was God he could not have died. I am absolutely oneness but you need to realize the error of your theology. "God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost" is trinitarian theology, and no where in the Bible is "God the Son" referred to.. The Son was the created flesh that the Father manifested himself in. This is what you must realize. Father=Spirit and Son=Flesh. Jesus was in the flesh therefore He was the Son. His spirit is not the spirit of a man but the Spirit of God. The false doctrine of "divine flesh" states that the Son was God. Let me ask you this...if the flesh of Jesus Christ (the Son) was God, could he have been tempted with evil? (remember the scripture says that God is not tempted with evil) Could he have died? This truth is the truth of the Mighty God in Christ, but we must realize the dual nature of Jesus Christ. Flesh and Spirit. Father and Son.

kclee4jc · #5 04-17-2011, 08:07 PM

For the record...i believe that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and that "all the fulness of the Godhead dwelleth in Him bodily."

TGBTG · #6 04-17-2011, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

For the record...i believe that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and that "all the fulness of the Godhead dwelleth in Him bodily."

How can you say Jesus is the Father, Son, and HolyGhost and say that the Son is not God himself? Don't you believe Jesus is God?

I have not advocated trinity neither did I say there's a "God the Son." I said Jesus Christ himself put the Father, Son, and HolyGhost on the same level in Matt 28:19. Therefore, the Father, Son, and HolyGhost refer to the same God.

The Son is God himself in human form. The Son is NOT just a flesh container.

If the Son ain't God himself, why then did Jesus mention the Son in Matt 28:19?

CC1 · #7 04-17-2011, 10:02 PM

Good thread! Good discussion without juvenile name calling. The way Christians should interact.

Sam · #8 04-17-2011, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

...The Son was the created flesh that the Father manifested himself in. This is what you must realize. Father=Spirit and Son=Flesh. Jesus was in the flesh therefore He was the Son. His spirit is not the spirit of a man but the Spirit of God. ....

If Jesus did not have a human body, soul, and spirit, was He really human?
If Jesus did not dismiss his human spirit at death, was He really human?

Sam · #9 04-17-2011, 10:13 PM

[QUOTE=TGBTG;1058748

...The Son is NOT just a flesh container ...

[/QUOTE]

Praxeas · #10 04-18-2011, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

No sir the Son is not God. If the Son was God he could not have died. I am absolutely oneness but you need to realize the error of your theology. "God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost" is trinitarian theology, and no where in the Bible is "God the Son" referred to.. The Son was the created flesh that the Father manifested himself in. This is what you must realize. Father=Spirit and Son=Flesh. Jesus was in the flesh therefore He was the Son. His spirit is not the spirit of a man but the Spirit of God. The false doctrine of "divine flesh" states that the Son was God. Let me ask you this...if the flesh of Jesus Christ (the Son) was God, could he have been tempted with evil? (remember the scripture says that God is not tempted with evil) Could he have died? This truth is the truth of the Mighty God in Christ, but we must realize the dual nature of Jesus Christ. Flesh and Spirit. Father and Son.

Nobody said "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost"

The Son, in Oneness, is not a skin suit, the Son is not an impersonal it, just skin that God was inside of. The Son was a person who spoke and did things.

Divine flesh is NOT the doctrine that the Son is God. The doctrine of Divine flesh teaches His humanity was not inherited through Mary but was of a heavenly origin.

The Son IS Jesus. Jesus is the name of the Son. The Dual nature doctrine is that Jesus (the Son) is both God and man.

From David Bernard, the Oneness of the Godhead, chapter 5 "The Son of God"

He has two natures.
"From the Bible we see that Jesus Christ had two distinct natures in a way that no other human being has ever had"

"Son of God may refer solely to the human nature or it may refer to God manifested in flesh - that is, deity in the human nature."

"Man could not see the invisible God, so God made an exact likeness of Himself in flesh, impressed His very nature in flesh, came Himself in flesh, so that man could see and know Him."

"As stated above, "Son" does not always refer to the humanity alone but to the deity and humanity together as they exist in the one person of Christ"

"What is the significance of the title "Son of God"? It emphasizes the divine nature of Jesus"

"When Peter confessed that Jesus was "the Christ, the Son of the living God," he recognized the Messianic role and deity of Jesus (Matthew 16:16). The Jews understood what Jesus meant when He called Himself the Son of God and when He called God His Father, for they tried to kill Him for claiming to be God (John 5:18; 10:33). In short, the title "Son of God" recognizes the humanity while calling attention to the deity of Jesus. It means God has manifested Himself in flesh."

"These verses describe the eternal Spirit that was in the Son - the deity that was later incarnated as the Son - as the Creator."