What kind of pastor is this?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Well I do not believe that I ever said that you personally were a UPCI closet racist, maybe you misunderstood what I wrote.

What I believe is that perhaps there is a tinge of racism in a pastor not allowing a young woman in the congregation to marry a black man, of course there might be other reasons involved.

When I was a young man, I had black girlfriends, white girlfriends and Hispanic girlfriends nothing serious just playing the field. After many years I finally married.

Was you raised on the West Coast that is a different world from the one I was raised in. Before I get gutted for being a racist my grandfather disowned me and didn't speak to me for years because I would visit a PAW church. However interracial marriage was beyond my wildest imagination growing up. Truthfully it has taken years for me to come to grips by my culture has changed and for the better I think. I loved visiting the West Coast and seeing those multicultural churches it was so refreshing.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Oh I'm sure he loves them, but that is part of the problem. It is control. He loves them, and controls them, and he enjoys that. It is not healthy, and you've admitted that. It is definitely not your average congregation.

You have to admit there are similarities about the control he has over these people being similar to the stunt Jim Jones pulled, in that he moved an entire congregation from one country to another. He needs help, but I don't know who could offer it to him.

BUT you have not returned to your national roots? It was my understanding that at the time time the economy was in such of a condition nearly all you younger folks would have been forced to move somewhere for work. Either Western Canada or at least off the island? I know at the time he really talked about just trying to get someone in there to take the church and the folks would not have it? Thus the move. Of course there y'all were nearly isolated from fellowship thus that determined the move. Not trying to drag every thing out here but just trying to bring some things I see as relevant.

[DanShaf]

I have known the pastor in question all of my life..I do not currently travel within his circle of fellowship.I believe he is a good man,I believe he probably desires the very best for the young lady in the situation.We believe and teach that marriage is a sacred,eternal vow,only to be broken by graveyard death. Men and women are VERY different,throw another culture into the mix,it is even more difficult many times..Having said this,and coming from a long line folks who had tendencies toward racism,let me say that there is no Bible foundation to speak against mixed marriages.In fact we are all "mixed." Do not be hasty to consider men such as these "abusive" to their congregations.Many of them have been doing a good work for God for many years..Old habits die hard!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

BUT you have not returned to your national roots? It was my understanding that at the time time the economy was in such of a condition nearly all you younger folks would have been forced to move somewhere for work. Either Western Canada or at least off the island? I know at the time he really talked about just trying to get someone in there to take the church and the folks would not have it? Thus the move. Of course there y'all were nearly isolated from fellowship thus that determined the move. Not trying to drag every thing out here but just trying to bring some things I see as relevant.

The financial issue is part of what was told to us. However, my dad had just had the best year financially when the pastor made the decision to move. Finances of the country were again, a cover issue. He hated the cold, hated living in PEI, and wanted out, but he didn't want to start over in the US, so he came up with the idea to move the entire congregation. The financial situation of the country was a crock issue, that had nothing to do with the move.

Control was the issue then, and still is now. Nothing has changed.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by DanShaf

I have known the pastor in question all of my life..I do not currently travel within his circle of fellowship.I believe he is a good man,I believe he probably desires the very best for the young lady in the situation.We believe and teach that marriage is a sacred,eternal vow,only to be broken by graveyard death. Men and women are VERY different,throw another culture into the mix,it is even more difficult many times..Having said this,and coming from a long line folks who had tendencies toward racism,let me say that there is no Bible foundation to speak against mixed marriages.In fact we are all "mixed." Do not be hasty to consider men such as these "abusive" to their congregations.Many of them have been doing a good work for God for many years..Old habits die hard!

Racism is not the real issue. Control is really the issue here. If you know him, are you aware of this?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I am not there so I cannot say but could it be what is seen as control in your eyes could actually be the guy really loves these folks particularly those who moved with him and really hates to lose them. I spoke to him about that during those times. That is the way it works in marriage you lose and gain. I gave him the examples of his dils.

From what you explain, you understand that losing someone to marriage is normal. If that pastor "loves' these people so much he has to exert an abnormal and sick sense of control, to the point of ripping apart important relationships in his congregants lives and bringing them untold grief, that is a really sick and distorted sense of "love".

Why can you see the truth, that it is normal for people to leave for marriage but you want to defend the actions of a man who controls his people in this way?

[n david]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

She was white, he was Hispanic. When I attended the church, we were not allowed to date Hispanics. My sister had to break up with a guy just because he was Hispanic. BUT when his daughter fell in love with a Hispanic, that rule was adjusted, in her case at least. I don't know of any other interracial marriages at all that he has allowed.

Oh, so you and this family knew this man was against interracial dating/marrying for a long time. This isn't something new. Yet the family has been a faithful, tithes-paying, supporting member of this church for 40 years or so? I find it hard to be sympathetic to people who willingly support someone like this, especially when he's been open about his racism in the past.

My question is why would they stay and support a known racist?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

The financial issue is part of what was told to us. However, my dad had just had the best year financially when the pastor made the decision to move. Finances of the country were again, a cover issue. He hated the cold, hated living in PEI, and wanted out, but he didn't want to start over in the US, so he came up with the idea to move the entire congregation. The financial situation of the country was a crock issue, that had nothing to do with the move.

Control was the issue then, and still is now. Nothing has changed.

I have bazillions of relatives in PEI. The financial situation there can be challenging but most of my relatives are still there, making a living.

[DanShaf]

I know him..Some years ago my relationship with my pastor,who is related to me..came apart because of some situations similar to these. Are you sure,sure that you know the whole story? It is easy for us to react negatively because of situations in our past...Some of the members of this forum,have rebellion down to a fine art..and could not hear the Lord if he was standing beside them with a loudspeaker..

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by n david

Oh, so you and this family knew this man was against interracial dating/marrying for a long time. This isn't something new. Yet the family has been a faithful, tithes-paying, supporting member of this church for 40 years or so? I find it hard to be sympathetic to people who willingly support someone like this, especially when he's been open about his racism in the past.

My question is why would they stay and support a known racist?

Good question! I don't know the answer. I left as soon as I could. Why they have stayed.... ??? Control is part of the answer.