It's very likely she has NO ONE in 'real life' to talk to. You can't exactly sit down at the church potluck and openly discuss these issues. And in our closed Pentecostal circles, it's rare to have even one person that it's safe to discuss these struggles with. Sometimes the only safe place to talk is on an anonymous forum. It can be an *enormous* relief to know that there are other people on the planet struggling with the same things you are struggling with.
well talking to perfect strangers who tend to be anonomous, and whos agenda, and motives arent known.
I suppose I can make one exception. Mrs Bratified can be listened to. Everyone else (even me) needed to be avoided like the plague.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
my advice is one should not seek advice from perfect strangers on the internet.
Further one should not seek religious advice from a forum filled with folks whos views on faith range from TV will send you to hell, to there aint no hell....
(yea i fit somewhere in between those places)
LOL.
seriously, I advise to not take MY (or anyone here) advice!
Lol I'm beginning to think your advice is the best of all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*
It's very likely she has NO ONE in 'real life' to talk to. You can't exactly sit down at the church potluck and openly discuss these issues. And in our closed Pentecostal circles, it's rare to have even one person that it's safe to discuss these struggles with. Sometimes the only safe place to talk is on an anonymous forum. It can be an *enormous* relief to know that there are other people on the planet struggling with the same things you are struggling with.
This is true. It's hard to talk to Pentecostals about this sort of thing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
The whole "Obey your husbands" fits perfectly into the control freak/manipulator personality.
Maybe the question should not be, should she obey but rather, should he order her to do something against her conscious?
This is how I feel, yes. I don't think the Bible gives him permission to tell me I have to do something. The directive is to wives to submit to their husbands, not to husbands to tell their wives to submit to them, if that makes any sense.
A subtle, but important difference...
I don't think he should demand my submission, and I shouldn't demand his love. Both of us need to give of ourselves freely.
That being said, just because I don't feel that he's really living up to his end of the bargain, that's no excuse for me to not live up to mine...
If your husband came to you and said that he wanted to stop cutting his hair and allow it to grow long, flowing, down past his waste and wear clothing that appeared feminine or was immodest, and then claimed that it was by the leading of the Holy Spirit, would you agree and allow it?
Of course not. However, I don't think we're comparing apples to apples here. I don't want to chop all my hair off and start dressing to look like a man. I love being a woman, and I want to dress modestly and femininely. I agree wholeheartedly that the Bible teaches those principles. I disagree with his interpretation of that.
The main issue is obeying the husband. He isn't commanding sin, perversion, rebellion, or immorality. What does he want? By all appearances, long (maybe even uncut) hair and modest, gender conforming apparel, perhaps skirts and dresses.
Disgracing the marriage covenant and instigating disunity through disobedience over one's hair and clothing, especially since he has power over her body, and so has the final say over her appearance, is the wrong move to make.
There is no harm at all in yielding. God can be served acceptably and reverentially with long, uncut hair and gender conforming, modest clothing including skirts and dresses.
So why would God command a woman's conscience to disregard all that, even to the point of disobeying her head?
God just doesn't do that to His people!
He wants uncut hair, long dresses, no makeup, and no jewelry. You're right, none of those things are sinful.
My problem isn't that he wants me to do those things. It's that he feels he has the right to tell me what to do. I don't think that's what true submission means, and I don't think that's fulfilling God's direction for him to love me.
But regardless, I am obeying him, because I love him.
To say there is no harm at all in yielding is true to a point. But here's how I see it. Let's put aside my whole issue with my husband for a minute...
I feel that teaching that the Bible requires something that it does not (i.e. a woman must never trim her hair, a woman must never wear pants, a woman must never wear make up or jewelry, etc.) is WRONG. It's adding to the Bible. I personally believe it's a modern form of legalism and causes people to trust in their works for salvation, and not the beautiful grace of God.
I defend your right to believe as you see fit, but for you to tell me how I must believe and act is WRONG. We are all accountable to God as individuals.
So in my mind, this issue is about way more than just what I "want" to do. It's about my identity and being able to be true to what I believe. I want to obey the heart of God's message on true holiness, true modesty, true womanliness. Not just the outward show of it all...
I feel suffocated. I feel like I'm being asked to live a double life. What am I supposed to tell people who ask me why I dress the way I do? What am I telling people about myself when they see the way I look?
So this is a big issue for me on many levels...
I want to do what is RIGHT, not just what I WANT. I want to know the TRUTH.
On the other hand, I love and respect my husband, and I take our relationship very seriously. I understand where he's coming from. I'm not gonna rebel against him. That's why I'm taking this very slowly.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
Whether or not you're obligated to obey him isn't the issue, IMO. To me, man-made rules are nothing. I can take them or leave them. I can abide by them or not. Relationships, however, are important. I wouldn't throw my relationship with my husband to the curb just so I could do whatever I wanted.
The peace in my home and the sanctity of my marriage are worth far more to me than outwardly expressing every disagreement I have with the status quo. I disagree with some things in the UPCI manual, too. That doesn't mean I'm going to set fire to my life and everyone in it so I can shout it to the world.
If there is going to be a change made to how you practice Christianity with your husband, it needs to be a mutual, unified decision. Pray about it, and leave it up to God. In the meantime, don't cause chaos in your home. It won't hurt you to wear dresses, keep your hair long, skip the makeup, etc. It most certainly doesn't "violate your conscience" to do those things. Unless you now have a conviction against wearing dresses and having long hair and view those things as sinful....
Unless your husband is asking you to sin or is abusing you, then you should defer to his authority in the home and continue to be a loving wife. And, no--his asking you to continue to be the woman he married isn't "abuse."
Many excellent thoughts. Thank you so much. I really like what you said here: "If there is going to be a change made to how you practice Christianity with your husband, it needs to be a mutual, unified decision."
This is exactly what I hoping for, a MUTUAL, UNIFIED decision. As Aquila said earlier, that takes a lot of trust and faith from both parties. Right now, I don't think that is what's happening.
Lol, no I certainly don't have any convictions against wearing dresses or having long hair, just against legalism and being forced to obey unbiblical teachings.
I value my relationship above man-made rules, absolutely. But sometimes I wonder if my husband does. He seems to value obeying the teachings of the church more than anything else, sometimes. But I could certainly be wrong. He's a good man.
Sometimes I wonder if my husband is asking me to sin by obeying these teachings. Because I personally think that teaching these specific things as biblical commands is sinful. They're not in the Bible. Jesus condemned the practices of Pharisees, making a show of outward holiness while ignoring what was on the inside. He condemned adding to the Bible and laying unnecessary burdens on people...
But for now, I continue to obey...Thank you for your thoughts, really. I think they are very wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
1Pe 3:7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.
See again, everyone wants to make this about the man ordering the woman around and not HOW he should be treating her...
Just food for thought...
Gen 21:10 So she said to Abraham, "Cast out this slave woman with her son, for the son of this slave woman shall not be heir with my son Isaac." Gen 21:11 And the thing was very displeasing to Abraham on account of his son. Gen 21:12 But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the boy and because of your slave woman. Whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your offspring be named.
I understand, I think, where you're coming from. You're not chafing at the particular clothesline standards so much as the fact that they are taught as heaven/hell issues, when they shouldn't be.
I believe that if the OP would leave off their legalistic mindset with the teachings that certain dress codes are salvational, and leave it up to husbands/wives to determine the particular standards for their families, instead of being mandated by a pastor/church/organization, then revival could truly break forth in their ranks like never before.
It is not to say that wearing a dress/long hair/no makeup... etc. etc. are wrong... it is the teaching that it is a salvational thing that makes it so wrong.
If authority were recognized as God-Christ-husband-wife-children, as it is biblically taught, a lot of problems in the ranks of OP would be solved.
I understand, I think, where you're coming from. You're not chafing at the particular clothesline standards so much as the fact that they are taught as heaven/hell issues, when they shouldn't be.
I believe that if the OP would leave off their legalistic mindset with the teachings that certain dress codes are salvational, and leave it up to husbands/wives to determine the particular standards for their families, instead of being mandated by a pastor/church/organization, then revival could truly break forth in their ranks like never before.
It is not to say that wearing a dress/long hair/no makeup... etc. etc. are wrong... it is the teaching that it is a salvational thing that makes it so wrong.
If authority were recognized as God-Christ-husband-wife-children, as it is biblically taught, a lot of problems in the ranks of OP would be solved.
Why do women/people want to wear makeup, jewelry, get their nails, feet and hair done up? I mean what's the primary reason for these things?
Just asking this question, because I keep hearing about all of this "legalistic" talk, and that you can do these things if you do them in moderation. I just wanted to know what's the reason for doing these things, even if it is done in moderation?
__________________ Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Why do women/people want to wear makeup, jewelry, get their nails, feet and hair done up? I mean what's the primary reason for these things?
Just asking this question, because I keep hearing about all of this "legalistic" talk, and that you can do these things if you do them in moderation. I just wanted to know what's the reason for doing these things, even if it is done in moderation?
Marie, perhaps you are different, but most women want to look nice when in public. It's no different than men either, really. You can ask the same question of them, like, why the hair goup, why neckties and suits, and why so much cologne?
The 'legalistic' talk isn't about the wearing of these things alone, but when they are made to be salvational issues. That's a problem with God.
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