What This Cruel War Was Over

[Esaias]

Unfortunately, this subject rarely gets discussed rationally due to the copious amounts of brainw- er, education everybody got from their free k-12 indoct- er, schoolinz.

The future belongs to homeschoolers, by the way.

[Liteweight47]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Where do you read of slavery being a sin? The treatment of slaves was spoken of, but did it forbid slavery altogether? (BTW, slavery was not established because of racism) I personally don't agree with slavery nor do I think it was ever intended of God, but I don't think that every slave owner was necessarily an evil person. I had no hand in slavery and that is not for me to repent, my battles are elsewhere.



I cannot say so confidently who died lost and who didn't. People are greatly affected by the norms of their society and I think God is a righteous judge of that. I know many precious men of God who hold views probably differing from yours, but still they have the love of God in their life. All this talk about racism is only stirring up more racism. Do you think that taking down flags and memorials of other people's history is going to help race relations?

There is going to have to be tolerance on both sides to see this get better. I am not going to accuse the whole of the black community for what some do. Also, all white people should not be persecuted for the actions of a few.

First, I never said whites should be persecuted. I never accused anyone of anything. As far as repentance, I personally believe in collective repentance. I do believe that we should at least ask God that he forgive the sins of a nation, even if I had no hand in it. I do pray that the effects of slavery are healed, that the effects of this recent supreme court decision are healed. That our nation would turn itself to God and make decisions based on his word. That does not mean I hold white people living today responsible for slavery. I'm not asking for reparations or anything of the sort.

However, you made a statement that's troubling. You said that slavery was not a sin. then you said that you "don't agree with slavery".

If I am to believe that the Bible doesn't prohibit slavery and add in that the Book of Philemon suggest that slaves ought to be obedient to their masters, what is the problem with slavery? What makes American slavery a "bad thing" considering that God himself seems to have no opinion?

As far as blatant racism. I don't know how Godly men could have at a time when lynchings, the burning of homes, and bombings of churches could have been so "influenced by their time" that they could not see the flaws in Jim Crow. We can look at this from an historical prism and act as if slavery and segregation had no real victims and make it sound as if it was "not that bad". But a part of a REAL discussion about race has to admit, at some point that somebody somewhere was wrong about race. I'm not arguing that this nation has not changed for the better. I don't believe the majority of Americans are racist like some, but I definitely feel it's dangerous to start going down the denial train that makes slavery and segregation look like good Godly folks just trying to keep things "the way they always were".

[Liteweight47]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You believe that if the South would of won slavery would still be in effect?
Weren't most slave owners looking to get out of slave ownership? By the way, that kind of thinking doesn't make much sense because any kind of man power costs money and steals profit from the owners. Mechanization would eventually made slaves fewer, and sooner than later making the slave business obsolete. But please present your case on how if the South would of won, how they would of kept slaves, continued to make slave ownership profitable since sanctions would of continued from the Northern states. Apartheid in South Africa ended because of sanctioned placed against South Africa, the same would of been done to the South. Yet, the main issue wasn't slave ownership, but the RIGHT to own slaves as dictated by one's STATE.

Like I said, this whole argument is boiled down to Southerners Nazis, and Black Slaves Jews. Civil War was fought to set black slaves free from a Holocaust. Therefore the Confederate Flag is the equivalent to the Nazi Swastika. Abraham Lincoln is viewed as a Messianic figure of abolitionist mythology to set the black man free.

As it will always be, history is written by the victors, and the losers just have to wait until the revisionist comes along.

If slavery lasted as long as Apartheid, I would have been the son of slaves.

[Liteweight47]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Do you know that the Apostle Paul encourages a runaway slave (who robbed his master) to go back to his owner, and for the owner to receive him Philemon 1:10-20?

You should call the P.A. of W. and ask to preach on that at their next convention. It's comin' up soon so hurry.

[Liteweight47]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Unfortunately, this subject rarely gets discussed rationally due to the copious amounts of brainw- er, education everybody got from their free k-12 indoct- er, schoolinz.

The future belongs to homeschoolers, by the way.

Or maybe it's just the plain and simple fact that people have different views and opinions.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Liteweight47

You should call the P.A. of W. and ask to preach on that at their next convention. It's comin' up soon so hurry.

Wow, that was rational.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Liteweight47

First, I never said whites should be persecuted. I never accused anyone of anything. As far as repentance, I personally believe in collective repentance. I do believe that we should at least ask God that he forgive the sins of a nation, even if I had no hand in it. I do pray that the effects of slavery are healed, that the effects of this recent supreme court decision are healed. That our nation would turn itself to God and make decisions based on his word. That does not mean I hold white people living today responsible for slavery. I'm not asking for reparations or anything of the sort.

However, you made a statement that's troubling. You said that slavery was not a sin. then you said that you "don't agree with slavery".

If I am to believe that the Bible doesn't prohibit slavery and add in that the Book of Philemon suggest that slaves ought to be obedient to their masters, what is the problem with slavery? What makes American slavery a "bad thing" considering that God himself seems to have no opinion?

I want to explain a little by what I mean that slavery may not be a sin. Firstly there is no scripture to call it so, but I believe it takes place in an ungodly system.

For example: I don't believe it is in the design of God for women to be a part of the public work force. No, it is not a sin and may even be necessary now for some. I think that the plan of God was for the wife to bear children by conception and nourishing them through childhood. I think the system is got jacked by many things other than God (financial stresses, feminism movements,etc.). I do not think it is a sin for a woman to work, but I believe there is problems in our culture today because of the lack of distinction in family roles.

You may think this is not apples to apples or may not agree with how I feel about the family, but I don't think the scripture confronts either situation to be a sin. It certainly speaks about fair treatment to all humanity though. I don't think that slavery was ever God's will (I guess that could cause it to be sin), but it is a result of humanity's sinful nature.

Hypothetically speaking, I believe it was possible for there to had been slave owners who treated their slaves with decency and fairness. Again, hypothetically, there were possibly slaves who were treated fairly and who were not unhappy. I am not trying to say it was right and I am glad to say that slavery has been abolished. I just don't know that we can honestly say that all slave owners where cruel ungodly taskmasters. IMO.

As far as blatant racism. I don't know how Godly men could have at a time when lynchings, the burning of homes, and bombings of churches could have been so "influenced by their time" that they could not see the flaws in Jim Crow. We can look at this from an historical prism and act as if slavery and segregation had no real victims and make it sound as if it was "not that bad". But a part of a REAL discussion about race has to admit, at some point that somebody somewhere was wrong about race. I'm not arguing that this nation has not changed for the better. I don't believe the majority of Americans are racist like some, but I definitely feel it's dangerous to start going down the denial train that makes slavery and segregation look like good Godly folks just trying to keep things "the way they always were".

I was not speaking of haters. I do know elders who where segregationists, but I don't feel they meant any offence. We have cultural norms. that go into play that only God can be the judge of the hearts of individual. Any man who could support cruelty, abuse, murder is not a Christian. Those men are not the one's I defend. I hope I am not offensive in anything I say, I really think this whole racism thing is a tactic of the enemy to sow division.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Liteweight47

Or maybe it's just the plain and simple fact that people have different views and opinions.

No, it's deeper than just "differences of opinion". The government school system, founded and managed by socialists, has done a great job of instilling Pavlovian reflexes into most people, so that rational discussion is almost impossible.

I see it everywhere, not just on AFF.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

No, it's deeper than just "differences of opinion". The government school system, founded and managed by socialists, has done a great job of instilling Pavlovian reflexes into most people, so that rational discussion is almost impossible.

I see it everywhere, not just on AFF.

[good samaritan]

Eph. 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

This world system is a system of spiritual slavery. Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, Obama, etc. are just very influential key pawns to the powers at work. I suspect they don't even know it. This news media is purposely stirring hate and fear in this nation whether they realize it or not. They may think it is for ratings, but the powers at work have an agenda.