What is the GOSPEL?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Actually I believe you are wrong,

Moot.

as we have skirted this issue several times in the past. First let me say I don't believe one must put two passages together from two or more books or letters to build a doctrine.

Incorrect. But we came to loggerheads in a very betraying manner when you refused to accept the thought that Luke 24:47-49 was fulfilled Acts 2:38, and you refused to realize that Luke ended off with words to the disciples to preach to all nations the very elements listed in Acts 2:38, and Acts starts with Christ's departure and Luke ends with it, giving no other frame of reference for the fulfillment of Luke 24:47-49 than Acts 2:38. So, I cannot agree with you when you speak about putting passages together that clearly go together.

John 3:5 is a prime example When Nic. ask about entering his mothers womb a second time, he directed his answer to that question. Baptism in never spoken in scripture as a birth ever. To ignore the many passages that say "he that believeth on him shall be saved"

Eph 5:26....That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

BIRTH is the same concept of beginning as the above verse in Ephesians indicates. Christ gave himself in death for the church. It is into his death that we are baptized. (Ro 6:3). This indicates beginning the Christian life. Washing of water by the word is baptism. It is useless without faith in the word of the gospel. It's just getting wet. And when we are baptized and wash away sins (Acts 22:16), only through faith while we're baptized or it's useless and void, we are without spot or wrinkle. That verse is not saying the resurrection brings a church to Him without spot or wrinkle, but baptism at salvation accomplishes that. We are without sin, and sins were remitted when we enter His death. So the new birth of water is the same idea as starting our Christina walk in baptism's washing of water by the word. It does not have to be "BIRTH" that is noted in baptism every time baptism is mentioned, in order for birth to be a good picture of what baptism is involved with, like you're demanding it. It's just another angle of beginning the walk that water baptism is involved with. Eph 5 makes it a marriage. John 3 makes it a birth. Same idea of beginning.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I already showed how that is the last verse someone should use to show a plan of salvation.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

That was mentioned BEFORE the people asked Peter what they must do in verse 37. I told you this before. You never responded. Those words are from Joel. And if that is all you have to do, then the people didn't have to ask Peter what they must do. If that's it, he would have responded saying, "What do you mean, 'What shall we do?' I just told you! Call on the name of the Lord." They knew better than that as much as I claim that wasn't the case. Nobody would have asked Peter what to do after Peter told them to call on the name of the Lord if what you're saying about verse 21 is true.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And then Peter DEMANDED baptism. On the spot, unlike ANY CHURCH GROUP TODAY that believes you do not need to be baptized to be saved. If Peter believed one need only believe and not be baptized to be saved, why did he demand it right there unlike churches today that agree one doesn't need baptism to be saved? See what Paul and Silas did with the jailor in Acts 16.

Rom 4: For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

And faith without works is dead. You never agreed with me on this either, so we cannot agree on this issue anyway, but the WORKS Paul spoke about are works that save us by earning righteousness without anything to do with the cross. Baptism without faith in the cross is USELESS. THAT and THAT ALONE is the nature of works that Paul is preaching against.

Gal_3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Amen! None of that says baptism is not vital.

[votivesoul]

You know, as I catch up on this post, I am reminded of a fact thus far not presented or discussed, and that is, that the gospel is primarily an OLD TESTAMENT prophetic device through which God promised Israel certain very specific things.

Start with this, for example:

Isaiah 52:7,

7. How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

Paul quotes this exact verse in Romans 10:15 as evidence that the Gospel had its beginning among the prophets and holy men of old.

Then, go here:

1 Peter 1:7-12,

7. That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8. Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9. Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Here, Simon Peter makes is plain that the Gospel was something the prophets of old witnessed through the Spirit of Christ, specifically, that it, that is, the Gospel, was not something they would personally experience, but rather, was for a time far into the future.

This again goes to show that the Gospel is truly an Old Testament concept enumerated well before John and Jesus came preaching.

Then, see here:

Jeremiah 31:31-34,

31. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

and,

Micah 7:18-20,

18. Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
19. He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
20. Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.

The promise of the remission of sin through a better covenant!

And what, above all, is the key?

"...they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them..."

As Godsdrummer pointed out regarding the preaching of the Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of God is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit, and he or she who serves Christ in these things is accepted by Him (Romans 14:17-18).

Being forgiven by God and receiving remission of sin debt against the Creator through His Son is akin to walking through the gates of a new city. As one passes through the "Door" (See John 10:9), that is, as they obey the message preached by those of whom the Lord says their feet are beautiful, they pass from death to life (See John 5:24 and 1 John 3:14).

Consider this, a revelation if you will:

When the Jews left Egypt, they did so after the slaying of the Passover lamb.

The blood the smeared around their doors, that protected them from the Last Plague, was still present upon their doors, in the same place it was smeared.

After the Last Plague struck, and dawn came upon them, the Jews walked underneath the "blood" of the Passover Lamb and as they did so, they walked out a free people, no longer under bondage. The blood that had protected them from wrath the night before was also the sign they were free from their enslavement to Pharaoh the very next day.

In this way, spiritually of course, we see the blood of Christ our Passover Lamb (1 Corinthians 5:7 and 1 Peter 1:19) saving us from the wrath of God (Romans 5:9), even as it also delivers us from the bondage and slavery of sin (e.g. Ephesians 2:13, Hebrews 9:14, and 1 John 1:7).

Walking through that door, first for the Jews, and now, for us, into the sheepfold, is to walk under the blood and be made free, the true and fuller meaning of "remission".

So, to walk under the blood, to pass by the gates of New Jerusalem, by grace through faith, causes us to receive pardon and remission of sin debt against God. Then, in the Holy Spirit, we receive all the promises of God in Christ Jesus, all that is YES, and AMEN, and so, are made into citizens of the New Jerusalem, which is Kingdom of God.

So, yes, essentially, the message is the Kingdom of God, and forgiveness, or being released by having one's sin debt cancelled on account of the Cross, is the gateway through which one walks into and become a full-fledged child of God with all the rights and privileges associated.

And to do that is how the "least of them unto the greatest of them" shall come to experientially, intimately through relationship, know the Living God, the essential prophetic promise and Old Testament linchpin that holds the Gospel and all its elements together!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Seems a simple enough question, of course.

Back up your statement with scripture that supports the question.

In a nutshell, the gospel is the good news that God sent his Son to reconcile sinful mankind to himself through his death, burial, and resurrection.

You can find what the "gospel" is by reading the 4 gospels, what "gospel" the disciples preached in the book of Acts, and Paul's explanation of "his gospel" in 1 Cor 15: 1-11

[Godsdrummer]

I am not going to repost Mikes post, but I am going to ask a couple of questions in regards to his post.

First, if the OT was types and shadows of good things to come. And is as I understand it, on the day of atonement the sacrificial lamb atoned for the sins of the whole nation for the previous year, lookin to the cross. And this sacrifice was carried out by the priest, with the high priest alone taking the blood in to the holy of holies. Every thing was done by the priest. And the NT tells us that Christ became our high priest. How can we say that other than believe as did the nation of Israel every year did when this was carried out, that we must do one thing other than believe in the work Christ did for us on the cross for our salvation?

Did not Christ say, "whosoever believeth on him in the same manner as the nation believed on the serpent lifted in the wilderness shall be saved?"

[shazeep]

um, i would not restrict your understanding of the passages there to "in the same manner," as that is liable to cement a reflection in your mind, when there are other valid relfections, even though there is nothing wrong that i can see with that one, as far as it goes imo. Nothing else is required. You get to reap what you have sown, and that is a promise.

The devil also believes, and trembles.

Originally Posted by Jason B

Has he also repented of his sins?


Your argument is invalid.

well, it can be seen to be valid, if there is any validity in the connection with it and Gd's statement about his beliefs though, is that not true?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

the gospel is primarily an OLD TESTAMENT prophetic device through which God promised Israel certain very specific things.

awesome, VS. there is a sense in which you are going to have to...marry a Jew, to understand the gospel, of the kingdom. this is why we say that law is fulfilled, not negated or made moot.

[shazeep]

to put that another way, we are two men in a bed, in an incestuous relationship with Law and Grace, and one is taken, and the other is left. And this is a divorce, which we can read about @ I have divorced you... and we are invited into a marriage, of Law and Grace.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by shazeep

awesome, VS. there is a sense in which you are going to have to...marry a Jew, to understand the gospel, of the kingdom. this is why we say that law is fulfilled, not negated or made moot.

you might go look up Hannibal Flavius, i think he's like 90, posting stuff nobody understands hardly, like that top part.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I am not going to repost Mikes post, but I am going to ask a couple of questions in regards to his post.

First, if the OT was types and shadows of good things to come. And is as I understand it, on the day of atonement the sacrificial lamb atoned for the sins of the whole nation for the previous year, lookin to the cross. And this sacrifice was carried out by the priest, with the high priest alone taking the blood in to the holy of holies. Every thing was done by the priest. And the NT tells us that Christ became our high priest. How can we say that other than believe as did the nation of Israel every year did when this was carried out, that we must do one thing other than believe in the work Christ did for us on the cross for our salvation?

Did not Christ say, "whosoever believeth on him in the same manner as the nation believed on the serpent lifted in the wilderness shall be saved?"

Satan believes also but we both know there is more to it than belief.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

...know the Living God, the essential prophetic promise and Old Testament linchpin that holds the Gospel and all its elements together!

nice, VS.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Did not Christ say, "whosoever believeth on him in the same manner as the nation believed on the serpent lifted in the wilderness shall be saved?"

i think it is pertinent to note however that although the Wanderers received the promise, and acted on it, freeing them from slavery, a total of...what, 2 of them? made it to the Promised Land! (of course Moses was needed later...)

and Gd, note the full stop!


14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
15that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”


hmm, except in the one trans i grabbed, lol. go look!
except you can't, because it's hidden or something, wow. it gets altered, depending upon how i search it. Significant, to me, but even a comma...

http://biblehub.com/john/3-13.htm
http://biblehub.com/john/3-14.htm

so, as has come out before, faith is all you need. And you also need works. ha.
at least that is what i am seeing.