The Two Baptisms

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

It’s a great example of twisting scripture.

People who do teach a doctrine of tithing money for some reason don’t like to be reminded that it’s contrary to scripture.

You’re a broken record, really.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

1 Corinthians 10:1-3

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

The cloud and the sea some could think the cloud and the sea are referring to the same water baptism, but us apostolics know that their is physical (water baptism) & spiritual (Holy Ghost) baptism. Therefore the sea represents water baptism and the Cloud the Spirit Baptism. Does anyone agree or disagree?

We can certainly observe a parallel between the two circumstances:

1. Our fathers were baptized unto Moses; we are baptized into Christ.

2. The went through water as a separation between the old life of bondage in Egypt and their new life as the people of God; we go through water as a separation between the old life of bondage in sin and our new life as the people of God.

3. They were under the cloud (the power and presence of God was upon them) which led them; we come under the Holy Ghost (the power and presence of God is upon us) which leads us today.

4. The cloud and sea are the means by which they entered into the covenant under Moses; the water and Spirit are the means by which we enter the covenant under Christ.

5. They all survived by eating the manna bread that fell out of heaven by the provision of God; we survive by eating the Bread from Heaven which is Christ.

Etc.

So we can say the cloud and the sea serve as types for new covenant experience, illustrations and foreshadowings if you will.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by diakonos

There is so much more to this than what you’re reducing it to…

Go on, please explain.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias

We can certainly observe a parallel between the two circumstances:

1. Our fathers were baptized unto Moses; we are baptized into Christ.

2. The went through water as a separation between the old life of bondage in Egypt and their new life as the people of God; we go through water as a separation between the old life of bondage in sin and our new life as the people of God.

3. They were under the cloud (the power and presence of God was upon them) which led them; we come under the Holy Ghost (the power and presence of God is upon us) which leads us today.

4. The cloud and sea are the means by which they entered into the covenant under Moses; the water and Spirit are the means by which we enter the covenant under Christ.

5. They all survived by eating the manna bread that fell out of heaven by the provision of God; we survive by eating the Bread from Heaven which is Christ.

Etc.

So we can say the cloud and the sea serve as types for new covenant experience, illustrations and foreshadowings if you will.

Good stuff!!!

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

1 Corinthians 10:1-3

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

The cloud and the sea some could think the cloud and the sea are referring to the same water baptism, but us apostolics know that their is physical (water baptism) & spiritual (Holy Ghost) baptism. Therefore the sea represents water baptism and the Cloud the Spirit Baptism. Does anyone agree or disagree?

That might be the case, but I don't think so, personally. The sea and the cloud aren't really the main features in 1 Corinthians 1-3. The real important part is that the fathers were baptized unto (into in Greek) Moses, that is, into his authority and leadership.

The Red Sea crossing was proof Moses was the man of God YHVH chose to lead His people:

Exodus 14:31 (ESV),

Israel saw the great power that the Lord used against the Egyptians, so the people feared the Lord, and they believed in the Lord and in his servant Moses.

The cloud that appeared in the camp was likewise a similarly used sign:

Exodus 19:19 (ESV),

And the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I am coming to you in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you, and may also believe you forever.”

So, when you look at the entirety of 1 Corinthians 10, it's not really so much about baptism as we think of it, but rather, a continuation on a theme regarding Israel and Moses, that is, the chapter is a warning against idolatry and the consequences thereof. Paul's point about the people being baptized into Moses in the cloud and the sea, and then, about drinking from the same Spiritual Rock, which was Christ, is more to show that even with all of that, those major miraculous events, "with most of them God was not pleased" 91 Corinthians 10:3).

I would therefore suggest that we try not to read into the text too much about the nature of New Covenant baptism, to try and find some typology that may or may not be there.

The word baptism and its related terms, even as used in the New Covenant Scriptures, did not always refer to the salvific aspects of Gospel obedience.

It was also a metaphor for death (e.g. Matthew 20:22-23) and was a generic term for washing (e.g. Mark 7:4 and Hebrews 6:2).

Josephus in his Histories uses the word to refer to a sword being driven into a man's belly up to the hilt and of ships sinking and of drowning and of being drunk and of a city being destroyed (i.e. completely overwhelmed).*

Granted, these are not from the Scriptures, but they do show that the term in that era had a multivalency of meaning, and so, perhaps Paul's use in 1 Corinthians 10 is not intended to draw the reader to, say, Acts 2:38.

*See: http://assembling.alanknox.net/2012/...phus-writings/