The Future of the Oneness Pentecostal Movement

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

None of my business ,but could high budget fees be the reason many ministers are independent ?

I don't think so really. Are the budget fees that high?

I would think that a budget fee wouldn't be much of a deterrent if men could see real benefit and value and reward in belonging to an organization they felt was viable, of benefit to them and going somewhere.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

My thoughts are unkind, Brett?

Care to elaborate since you seem to know what I'm thinking and what I would say?

I didn't read that at all......I believe he was saying to post what he thinks you would say would be unkind - not that what you would post would be unkind.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Could it be that many do not seek the ministry because the feel they have no pedigree to help them along?

We had NO pedigree. None whatsover and that kind of thinking never ever ever occurred to us or was part of our mentality at all.

Speaking personally of course.

I think God makes room for the gifts and calling He puts on those He chooses. You don't have to strive, push or shove to get to where God is going to take you anyhow.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by shamgar1

The new Forward (a magazine for UPCI preachers) came out this week.

In it, there is an article titled "Where Have All the Young Ministers Gone?". The entire Forward is about mentoring and ministerial transition from one generation to the next.

In this article, the writer mentions that of the 9100 licensed UPCI ministers, under 400 of them are below the age of thirty. Hence the question, "Where have all the young ministers gone?" It is my belief that the UPCI is in danger. Under 400 ministers under the age of thirty? Where have they all gone?
Lest I am accused of being an alarmist, consider the theme of last year's General Conference was "Passing the Mantle". Now we have an entire Forward dedicated to the problem.

Why are there so few young ministers and what can be done to remedy the problem?

This does bring up a touchy range of issues that are often difficult to objectify and discuss impassionedly. I appreciate "Dan just being Dan", but in the FWIW department- the dynamic of the father-son and/or father-son-in-law relationship can also be very bruising and abusive.

If I could bill some of my "family" for services I have given to them over the years I would have a real wad of dough right now. If I could just get the last 3 paychecks from ... that he has owed me for over 10 years I would be driving a new car right now.

The UPC in general has a dynamic that inhibits the development of young ministers. I could give you quite a list of the wounded, disfellowshipped and even the dead.

There's a new church starting services tomorrow in my city- the younger minister is branching off because he has been forbidden to preach in the church he helped to found many years ago - over a "control" issue involving the current pastor's wife and her self esteem problem.

Most of the churches in our area have some sort of bitterness involved in their founding. Fortunately my current pastor/superintendent has the vision to allow the young men to start something of their own. He bucks the evil trend that I have tried to describe.

"Where have all the young men gone...?" They got real educations and wised up.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Could it be that many younger ministers are staying independent or joining other fellowships ?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by ALVIN

A further question would be whether or not this is reflective of the demographic of the UPCI as a whole. What percentage of the adult members of the UPCI are in the 21 - 30 age bracket?

I think that the answer to the original question is quite complex, and without any single simple cause.

I don't know what that number is ... but that demographic has always been the most active,vibrant, innovative and dare say, talented, in the movement ....

Ever go to a North American Youth Congress????

[Brett Prince]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

My thoughts are unkind, Brett?

Care to elaborate since you seem to know what I'm thinking and what I would say?

Sorry, Ron--I meant that my remarks might seem flippant and unkind...as they would come across as highly sarcastic--since we obviously are not on the same page on a number of things.

I just don't think Shamgar is looking for the kind of ideas that you would present is all.

No offense intended. I'll be glad to delete my post if you should so desire.

[RandyWayne]

As pastors are losing some of the Lordship-type status that many have used to enjoy through the 20th century, what are left are men who's only remaining reason to pastor is to serve God. It is a weeding out!

But it also leaves a shortage, but the cream rises to the top.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by pelathais

This does bring up a touchy range of issues that are often difficult to objectify and discuss impassionedly. I appreciate "Dan just being Dan", but in the FWIW department- the dynamic of the father-son and/or father-son-in-law relationship can also be very bruising and abusive.

If I could bill some of my "family" for services I have given to them over the years I would have a real wad of dough right now. If I could just get the last 3 paychecks from ... that he has owed me for over 10 years I would be driving a new car right now.

The UPC in general has a dynamic that inhibits the development of young ministers. I could give you quite a list of the wounded, disfellowshipped and even the dead.

There's a new church starting services tomorrow in my city- the younger minister is branching off because he has been forbidden to preach in the church he helped to found many years ago - over a "control" issue involving the current pastor's wife and her self esteem problem.

Most of the churches in our area have some sort of bitterness involved in their founding. Fortunately my current pastor/superintendent has the vision to allow the young men to start something of their own. He bucks the evil trend that I have tried to describe.

"Where have all the young men gone...?" They got real educations and wised up.

I agree that the nepotism is part of the problem ... control issues are also an enormous factor .... some have become fiefdom-obsessed rather than Kingdom minded ..

[Felicity]

Not just the cream rises to the top but the cream that God ordains to rise to the top does. Who determines what the "top" is? Who determines what defines "cream"?

I believe firmly that God (being God and all ) has a lot to do with who does and doesn't "rise".