Tulsa Report Day One

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by The Dean

For the record, I've never heard anybody associated with the Tulsa group saying things like "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" or "the UPC is hellbound" or "they are contaminated" type stuff.

I've not heard anything remotely like that at all.

Actions speak louder than words. Double speak is alive and well in 2008.Clearly, they are not forming the WPF because they think the UPC is on the right track. Why form a new organization unless the old one is deemed to be unreformable? Why not work from the inside to promote change, rather than abandon that effort for a new endevor?

I think their actions speak for themselves. We have already felt the sting of followers of the dearly departed who are not able to say one thing and do another. Their words reveal verbally what the ministers repress.

[George]

Originally Posted by The Dean

For the record, I've never heard anybody associated with the Tulsa group saying things like "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" or "the UPC is hellbound" or "they are contaminated" type stuff.

I've not heard anything remotely like that at all.

They may not have used those words verbatim but they are telling their saints to stay away from UPC people. I personally know several young people who had close friends in some of these churches and their friends are not allowed to fellowship them anymore. That closely translates to the above phrases.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by George

They may not have used those words verbatim but they are telling their saints to stay away from UPC people. I personally know several young people who had close friends in some of these churches and their friends are not allowed to fellowship them anymore. That closely translates to the above phrases.

George do you have anything at all positive to post on this forum?

[George]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

George do you have anything at all positive to post on this forum?

Sure. I am leasing them space at my used car dealership for the big boat sale.

[embonpoint]

Originally Posted by George

They may not have used those words verbatim but they are telling their saints to stay away from UPC people. I personally know several young people who had close friends in some of these churches and their friends are not allowed to fellowship them anymore. That closely translates to the above phrases.

There is a difference in not fellowshipping because they are UPC and not fellowshipping because there are differing views or convictions.
Some believe that if it is UPC it should be fellowshipped no questions asked.

I believe that this is part of the new paradigm the Tulsa group is trying to establish i.e. fellowship is not based on a card or certificate but on life and message whether independent, UPC, ALJC, PAW LMNOP or whatever. Interestingly the same thing seems to also be happening on the more liberal end of the spectrum.

[SecretWarrior]

Originally Posted by The Dean

For the record, I've never heard anybody associated with the Tulsa group saying things like "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" or "the UPC is hellbound" or "they are contaminated" type stuff.

I've not heard anything remotely like that at all.

Ever hear of a message called "Protecting the bean patch"?

[George]

Originally Posted by SecretWarrior

Ever hear of a message called "Protecting the bean patch"?

Now we are talking proof of their UPC bashing. Booker took the text from Steve McMullens message years ago at PSR and it is on Bookers church website. He even tells his congregation he did not mean to get into so much but...

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by George

Now we are talking proof of their UPC bashing. Booker took the text from Steve McMullens message years ago at PSR and it is on Bookers church website. He even tells his congregation he did not mean to get into so much but...

George, I heard "Defending The Lentiles Of Pentecost" while in High School. As a new preacher in search of good sermons, I used the text once myself.

[embonpoint]

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

I have never fully understood the "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" push, yet retain your connections to said hell bound organization. What is accomplished by forming a new, pure fellowship when ministers are still connected to the clearly contaminated UPC?

Is this not a little like holding on to the world with one hand and your convictions with other? Comprimise?

And this harms you, how? This affects the harvest in your field. how?
If these men fellowship together, preach truth, support missions, have revival, refrain from speaking evil of the UPC, then why do you care?

To date the only accusations I have seen have come from leadership on one side of this issue. I have read that the WPF "will come to naught" but have not seen in any of the WPF materials the "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" quote you use.

Maybe you can point me to where on their website or mail outs anything negative is said about the UPCI?

[Barb]

Originally Posted by embonpoint

And this harms you, how? This affects the harvest in your field. how?
If these men fellowship together, preach truth, support missions, have revival, refrain from speaking evil of the UPC, then why do you care?

To date the only accusations I have seen have come from leadership on one side of this issue. I have read that the WPF "will come to naught" but have not seen in any of the WPF materials the "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" quote you use.

Maybe you can point me to where on their website or mail outs anything negative is said about the UPCI?

Bash the UPCI?! They wouldn't be so blatant, but sectarian?! That's another issue.

From the WPF site...

"The Preamble of the Worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship is an articulation of its general intent and purpose. The formation of WPF is an outgrowth of the changing times and directions within the North American apostolic movement and is the result of a constellation of events and decisions which have shaped apostolic direction for some time—some, we fear, for the worse, and ours hopefully for the better."

In other words, our way is the better way...'we' are right and 'they' are wrong.

Strange isn't it?! The only 'us' and 'them' that used to go on was between 'us' and Trinitarians.

And this...

"WPF is an honest attempt to embrace and work with any and all authentic Apostolics..."

Who are the authentic Apostolics?!

Who is qualified to make that distinction?!

Listen...one of the wives of the Tulsa Six spoke to a friend of mine in her church and said, "You know who your friends are!!"

So if folks disagree with them, they are no longer firends?!

They drew the line here...