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  #41  
Old 05-31-2008, 06:55 PM
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Re: R-e-s-p-e-c-t

Bro. Buie,

Lots of good words and thoughts in your post.

However I do want to take exception with one thing. I don't think the shorthand you see on forums like "3 stepper", "1 steper", etc are done to demean or depersonify people. It is just done as a matter of convenience to shorten the time needed to type posts.

That kind of shorthand is common to just about every forum no matter the subject of that forum. I don't frequent mnay forums but I do look in on four or five to do with video production and motorcycles (two of my interests) and they all have their own shorthand for things.

However this exception i am taking certainly does not change the bulk of your post and the point you are making.
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  #42  
Old 05-31-2008, 08:12 PM
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Bro-Larry Bro-Larry is offline
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Re: R-e-s-p-e-c-t

Quote:
Originally Posted by RevBuddy View Post
I sure am, even though I haven't seen him since a wedding in Houston last year...

...are you a Texan?
Yes, Nathan and I drove to S'port many years ago and met you at a restaurant. That was back in the days of CB radios. I'm telling our ages. LOL
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  #43  
Old 05-31-2008, 08:58 PM
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Re: R-e-s-p-e-c-t

Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
Bro. Buie,

Lots of good words and thoughts in your post.

However I do want to take exception with one thing. I don't think the shorthand you see on forums like "3 stepper", "1 steper", etc are done to demean or depersonify people. It is just done as a matter of convenience to shorten the time needed to type posts.

That kind of shorthand is common to just about every forum no matter the subject of that forum. I don't frequent mnay forums but I do look in on four or five to do with video production and motorcycles (two of my interests) and they all have their own shorthand for things.

However this exception i am taking certainly does not change the bulk of your post and the point you are making.
Thanks for your comments. I understand your point about the shorthand...but you make an assumption that everyone might not agree to...that the shorthands, "3 stepper" or "1 stepper," have the same definitions to all who use them.

As for me, these are oversimplifications and do a disservice to discussions about the plan of salvation and an indepth analysis of it...
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  #44  
Old 05-31-2008, 08:59 PM
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Re: R-e-s-p-e-c-t

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Originally Posted by Bro-Larry View Post
Yes, Nathan and I drove to S'port many years ago and met you at a restaurant. That was back in the days of CB radios. I'm telling our ages. LOL
Wow! Great...I'm in Monroe now...and it's great to hear from you...
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  #45  
Old 05-31-2008, 09:46 PM
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Re: R-e-s-p-e-c-t

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Thanks for your comments. I understand your point about the shorthand...but you make an assumption that everyone might not agree to...that the shorthands, "3 stepper" or "1 stepper," have the same definitions to all who use them.

As for me, these are oversimplifications and do a disservice to discussions about the plan of salvation and an indepth analysis of it...
A perfect example of your point is our simplification of the terms "PCI view" vs. "PAJC view".

We use the term "PCI" to signify those that believe one is "saved" at repentance and accepting Christ's work on Calvary in ones life and the term "PAJC" to signify those that believe salvation is a three step process involving repentance, baptism in water in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

The truth of the matter is that only some of the PCI believed the "one step" salvational doctrine. The percentage is in dispute and no doubt was significant but nevertheless a significant number of the PCI brethern were also "3 steppers" like virtually all of the PAJC.

To our point while those of us involved in these discusions for a long period of time know that context many newbies do not and could be "miseducated", as our President would say, about the PCI.
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  #46  
Old 05-31-2008, 09:46 PM
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Re: R-e-s-p-e-c-t

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Wow! Great...I'm in Monroe now...and it's great to hear from you...
Are you preaching at one of those great exUPC lib churches there?
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  #47  
Old 07-05-2008, 09:14 AM
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Re: R-e-s-p-e-c-t

I agree wholeheartedly with what RevBuddy is saying. It's sad when a so-called "minister" can treat the saint or visitor with such deference and respect, but can be downright nasty towards a fellow minister with whom he disagrees. I wish I could say I've never seen this phenomenon before...I really with I could say that...

As the old song says, "They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Love." The "they" in this song refers to both the unsaved that we are trying to win and the groups of saints we are ministering to. How would it look to a saint to see two ministers deriding each other's views publicly? When ministry criticizes ministry in front of the laity, it breeds distrust in ALL ministers. But perhaps we ministers are careful to only criticize our brethren privately. Doesn't it still have a profound effect on our respective ministries and the extent that the Holy Ghost is able to move? I have to believe that it does, and I'll give a simple example for it:

Pure water can still move through a partially clogged pipe, but it will no longer be pure, as it will pick up residues from the clogging agent. Pure water through a clean pipe is the most refreshing, tastes better, and moves more quickly. If we want the Holy Ghost to flow in our services and our lives, let's make sure our pipes are clean.
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  #48  
Old 07-05-2008, 02:47 PM
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Re: R-e-s-p-e-c-t

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Originally Posted by RevBuddy View Post
R-E-S-P-E-C-T

Yes, just like the popular hit by Aretha Franklin, R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

Respect: esteem for or a sense of worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality
or ability or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality
or ability (i.e., I have great respect for his judgment.)

We, Pentecostal pastors, evangelists and ministers, by example, are among the very worst at showing even a modicum of respect for one another. Whether we are in the pulpit, in personal conversation or on the Internet defending our point of view, we have become attack dogs lunging at our perceived ideological and doctrinal enemies’ throats to silence their silly and clearly unbiblical ideas or thoughts. It seems the objective is to ridicule, denigrate and embarrass without regard (respect) to feelings, and without respect to the possibility that these “unwashed” could have ideas or thoughts with merit.

Respect: deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something
considered to have certain rights or privileges, proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgement (i.e., respect for another’s right to an opinion; to show respect
for an opposing position; respect for the senior or more experienced.)

Of course, we would NEVER use these tactics with saints, guests or visitors. Oh no, with these, our interaction requires respect, even deference. “You’re going to miss this Sunday? Oh, ok…we’ll be praying for you,” says Pastor Smith to his major contributing saint. It would NEVER enter his mind to say, “Are you stupid? You’ve missed several Sundays already. I’m sorry, but you and your family must be in service this Sunday!” No way!

But in communicating with our “brother,” that is a whole different situation. When it comes to our brother, we MUST maintain our reputation for holding the line on ___________ (fill in the blank with truth, doctrine, holiness, standards, one god, Jesus name, water baptism, speaking in other tongues, holy living, etc., etc., etc.). Everyone we know must understand our higher spiritual position on holiness, standards, biblical truths, personal hygiene (just kidding, but it has come up before!) and whether our organization is the REAL church of the Living God. In our own minds, we have become Elijah under the Juniper tree, viewing ourselves as the “last one holding to His revealed Word” and the “last one who has the insight and wisdom to articulate His Will” to the masses of misinformed, unspiritual ministers, who are clearly incapable of grasping even the most elemental of biblical principles. As such, we become the unyielding, disrespectful, arrogant, and infallible oracles of God’s truths, principles and tenets. And if many of us were honest with ourselves, we would acknowledge that many of our beliefs and positions have not be adequately researched PERSONALLY to ensure ourselves that we are on solid biblical and doctrinal ground.

The Internet makes this phenomenon worse. Behind our strange avatar and cute user id, we are essentially anonymous, acting as the only voice of reason in a crowd of loose, unbelieving, unholy and essentially disabled preachers who, by their unfounded and misguided ideas, are driving the Pentecostal movement into the ground. We say dumb things because no one knows us. We say harsh and offensive things because we can be. We are snide and aggressive, angry voices, set at liberty to abuse, denigrate and offend at will. Even those, who hold positions not unlike our own, are not safe from our wrathful attacks. The major goals is “to win” and do so at all cost - to the point of resorting to personal affront, hurts and offenses. The forum arena has become a bloody place. Brother confronts brother. Brother slams his brother’s idea, not because he would behave this way if they were together in personal conversation, but because now, he doesn’t have to look in his brother’s eyes, because now, he doesn’t have to observe his brother’s facial expressions or reaction to his pointed attacks, because now, he really doesn’t have to respect his brother. After all, that “guy or gal” is not a real person, just an avatar and user id…that’s all. Let’s move forward, gain as much ground as possible and leave no survivors. Wrapped in our Internet “cloak of invisibility,” we takes on all comers, laugh at long-held personal beliefs and reduce the opposition (the enemy, really) to insignificance. Isn’t that the idea after all?

I have come to realize I am not immune from this “Holier than Thou” syndrome. And by that, I don’t mean holier in the sense of standards, etc. This syndrome is the spirit of King Saul. King Saul is right because he is king! And it’s good to be the king! This syndrome deals with a perfectionist spirit and an “I’m always right all the time” attitude, coupled with the communications skills to put anyone in their place. I’ve learned to give as well as take. I’m building up considerable immunity from second thoughts, conviction over thoughtless words or having sympathy or compassion for my opponent. Every opposing view can be defeated by MY superior logic, MY overwhelming abilities to express and MY skill in relegating these opposing views to their rightful place in the ash heap. MY actions are justified by MY inherent righteousness. After all, it is the Internet, and I’ve decided to treat these Internet encounters just like PAC MAN. I just eat up as many “dots” as I can in the limited time I have. Remember, the purpose behind all spiritual discussion is to WIN.

We’ve even developed our own code words, “3 steppers, 1 steppers, etc.” Pretty silly, isn’t it when you stop and think about it? Why, because it reduces the biblical arguments down to our terms. This really helps a lot. We don’t have to view our enemies as people! Oh no, they are just UPCers…or just ALJCers…or just WWPFers… no more, no less. Just as soon as we can categorize their ideas, the quicker they can be coded into the particular box I want them in. Once that is accomplished, they have no hope. They lose by being who they are!! They are coded, “3 stepper.” They are coded “1 stepper.” We won by default. It’s ingenious! It really is!

Respect: to refrain from intruding upon or interfering with (i.e., to respect a person’s beliefs)
to relate or have a reference to (i.e., in respect of one’s stand)

Lack of respect. As ministers, we are so good at disrespect. We hold a higher esteemed office. We are men of God. Because we believe our position to be without error, your position, if differing in any respect from ours, is faulty at best and heresy at worst. I have come to realize (and it has taken some time) that I can respect your position, idea or spiritual belief without having to endorse or promote it. In other words, respect is NOT dependent upon agreement. In legislative bodies, these words are often heard, “I yield to my esteemed (respected) colleague.” In doing so, the speaker does not yield his principled position to his colleague, just the floor, and that only temporarily. We, Pentecostal ministers, must somehow learn how to respect one another while discussing the eternal issues of His Word. This respect must come, not from our mind, but from our hearts. If God is capable of loving this world so much that He was willing to offer His Son a ransom for their sins, and I believe His is. Then, we must be willing to love, appreciate and respect others in the same limitless measure. To not do so is to purposely and egregiously violate His Word.

“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” 1 Chronicles 7:14

I realize that Scripture is subject to many interpretations. And those interpretations must be disciplined and in keeping with original language context and intent. And having said that, can we not, as Holy Ghost-filled ministers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, humble ourselves, pray for His guidance and will in our lives and determine to cease the overly aggressive, often attacking manner in which we communicate with each other? If I can control my pride through humility and prayer, I can adjust both my spirit and my actions. I gain two glorious benefits if I do – forgiveness and healing.

“Why can’t we all just get along?” Rodney King

I understand Rodney King is not a character study in righteousness, but in his fifteen minutes of fame, he did manage to leave us with one profound question. The question has been the brunt of jokes and, to a large extent, has become a cliché. But, if we push our bias aside and look at the question in a very childlike way, the only answer possible becomes obvious – “We should get along and we should do it respectfully.”

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” Voltaire
Thank you, RevBuddy, for a timely reminder of what it means to be a Christian. And, Lord, help me to be a true reflection of your heart and charactor.
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  #49  
Old 07-26-2008, 10:55 AM
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Re: R-e-s-p-e-c-t

AFF...let's revisit this important issue...our interpersonal relationship...and their direct affects on our posting...I believe this should be a continuing discussion...and reassessing our behaviors and attitudes...

...what say ye?...the membership at large....
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  #50  
Old 07-26-2008, 10:56 AM
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Re: R-e-s-p-e-c-t

This discussion can be an offshoot of the "Can We Work on This?" thread...
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