The Removal of Romans 14:22 - Page 2

HopePreacher · #1 07-11-2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I understand and agree.

But what about if someone from church sees you during the week with your stubble and is offended?

I think we have bandied about this poor, abused word "offend" entirely too carelessly.

I was once wearing a simple tie pen to keep my tie from getting in the way and a pastor came up to me and said, "Brother, why don't you take that thing off, it offends me." That same man some time later ran off with a woman in the church. I hope it wasn't my tie pen that caused that.

The word translated offend is "skandalizo" and, you guessed, it, that is the word we get "scandal" from. It literally means to put a snare or stumblingblock in the way.

When it is used in the case of one who has taken offense it means that one has actually stumbled or fallen.

To put in context, if a person stumbled, or fell, because of my beard I would wonder about their foundation.

Now, if they didn't like it and if it made them angry to see me with a beard, but they didn't stumble over it, then I would have no obligation to them.

Pressing-On · #2 07-11-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HopePreacher

I think we have bandied about this poor, abused word "offend" entirely too carelessly.

I was once wearing a simple tie pen to keep my tie from getting in the way and a pastor came up to me and said, "Brother, why don't you take that thing off, it offends me." That same man some time later ran off with a woman in the church. I hope it wasn't my tie pen that caused that.

The word translated offend is "skandalizo" and, you guessed, it, that is the word we get "scandal" from. It literally means to put a snare or stumblingblock in the way.

When it is used in the case of one who has taken offense it means that one has actually stumbled or fallen.

To put in context, if a person stumbled, or fell, because of my beard I would wonder about their foundation.

Now, if they didn't like it and if it made them angry to see me with a beard, but they didn't stumble over it, then I would have no obligation to them.

Offense has two meanings - skandalon and skandalizo. In our terms it would be defined as scandal and scandalize.

Skandializo is used primarily as something we often come against - just being annoyed or slighted by someone.

Skandalon means a trigger of a trap that has bait placed on it. The animal will touch the bait and the trap springs. In the moral sense it is referring to an enticement to some conduct that will ruin a person. In Matthew 18:7 Jesus is concerned with the temptation or the enticement that will cause others to sin.

The Bible speaks in all of these verses of NOT being instrumental or having been instrumental in causing another to stumble and thereby fall into temptation and sin.

HopePreacher · #3 07-11-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Offense has two meanings - skandalon and skandalizo. In our terms it would be defined as scandal and scandalize.

Skandializo is used primarily as something we often come against - just being annoyed or slighted by someone.

Skandalon means a trigger of a trap that has bait placed on it. The animal will touch the bait and the trap springs. In the moral sense it is referring to an enticement to some conduct that will ruin a person. In Matthew 18:7 Jesus is concerned with the temptation or the enticement that will cause others to sin.

The Bible speaks in all of these verses of NOT being instrumental or having been instrumental in causing another to stumble and thereby fall into temptation and sin.

It is true that these two words are often translated offend, or offense. However, according to Vines skandalizo is derived from skandalon and means "to put a snare or stumblingblock in the way".

our challenge is to carefully guard our life and actions so that we do not become the cause of another stumbling or falling away.

Pressing-On · #4 07-11-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HopePreacher

It is true that these two words are often translated offend, or offense. However, according to Vines skandalizo is derived from skandalon and means "to put a snare or stumblingblock in the way".

our challenge is to carefully guard our life and actions so that we do not become the cause of another stumbling or falling away.

I agree!

mfblume · #5 07-11-2009, 01:53 PM

Sam, it is a shame this passage in Romans has not been preached hardly at all. Otherwise we might clearly have the answers. But other passages are stressed more than this. lol

mfblume · #6 07-11-2009, 02:11 PM

Sam,

Thinking of your necktie example, I think in some cases lack of necktie would not offend anyone. But since it is PREACHED in contrary manners in two different places, people might get offended in the CONTRADICTION and not the tie or lack thereof, itself. They stumble at why two preachers contradict one another if they're both preachers. So THAT offense is what is actually avoided.

Scott Hutchinson · #7 07-11-2009, 02:14 PM

There are things that right and wrong for everybody,there are issues of personal convictions and personal preferences,why make salvation out of things that the bible does not.

For example fornication and adultery are wrong for everybody,but what if somebody was a sports fanatic before they got saved,and then after they got saved,they felt convicted to throw a ball even in their yard can such a one say to other Christians if you throw a ball in your yard you are sinning ?

Why major in minors ?

We should respect others convictions on non-salvational matters,yet there are differences of convictions on non-salvational things,and we must know our bibles well enough to know what God requires and what He doesn't.

mfblume · #8 07-11-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

There are things that right and wrong for everybody,there are issues of personal convictions and personal preferences,why make salvation out of things that the bible does not.

For example fornication and adultery are wrong for everybody,but what if somebody was a sports fanatic before they got saved,and then after they got saved,they felt convicted to throw a ball even in their yard can such a one say to other Christians if you throw a ball in your yard you are sinning ?

Why major in minors ?

We should respect others convictions on non-salvational matters,yet there are differences of convictions on non-salvational things,and we must know our bibles well enough to know what God requires and what He doesn't.

Great words!

mfblume · #9 07-11-2009, 02:16 PM

In short, if Paul gave liberty for people to do what is not sinful away from those who think it is offensive, then churches should not make people sign papers that require them to keep some ordinances at all times, whether they are around those offended or not.

HopePreacher · #10 07-11-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

In short, if Paul gave liberty for people to do what is not sinful away from those who think it is offensive, then churches should not make people sign papers that require them to keep some ordinances at all times, whether they are around those offended or not.

What do you think is the motivation for a pastor to require the members to sign such a paper?