Glorified Flesh?

[Nicodemus1968]

The spiritual mindset is the mindset which is in agreement with the Word of God. Your statement that "this physical world and the elements of it is (not) what God desires" seems to me to be based on a misunderstanding of certain things.

The "elements of the world" are to be "burned up" in judgment, thus the world that is, is to be destroyed by fire. Just as the previous world was destroyed by water. Yet, when the previous world was destroyed by water, it wasn't a total annihilation of physical reality, it was a destruction of the then existing world order, society, humans and their animals.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

He was talking about the temple, city of Jerusalem Etc. He told pilate if my kingdom was of the world my people would fight for this city, yet he said my kingdom is not of this world. Paul told the Romans “it is not meat and drink but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.”

This world is part of Gods plan, he is not going to burn it up.

Genesis 8:22
While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

The only thing that burnt up as to what your talking about is....

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Jerusalem, the temple, city, and all the inhabitants were destroyed.

In conclusion this earth will remain, souls will be saved, miracles performed, and Gods spirit at liberty.

I’m answering some of the ones I can before I have to leave.

[TJJJ]

Bang bang.........

Looking good Nic, looking good.

[diakonos]

This really is an issue of eschatology. Is it not?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

He was talking about the temple, city of Jerusalem Etc. He told pilate if my kingdom was of the world my people would fight for this city, yet he said my kingdom is not of this world. Paul told the Romans “it is not meat and drink but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.”

This world is part of Gods plan, he is not going to burn it up.

Genesis 8:22
While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

The only thing that burnt up as to what your talking about is....

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Jerusalem, the temple, city, and all the inhabitants were destroyed.

In conclusion this earth will remain, souls will be saved, miracles performed, and Gods spirit at liberty.

I’m answering some of the ones I can before I have to leave.

Perhaps you could just demonstrate the Scriptural proof for the claim "Jesus ceased to be a human being at the ascension at which time His personal body dissipated into nothingness".

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by diakonos

This really is an issue of eschatology. Is it not?

The resurrection, it's characteristics etc are certainly part of eschatology. Eschatology isn't actually the same as "Bible prophecy", though. Eschatology is the study (-ology) of the end state (eschat[on]). It covers both the end or completion of the world/age, as well as the end or completion or final state of the individual.

[Nicodemus1968]

When Jesus resurrected from the grave, there was no body in the tomb. Why? Because He had His body, the body that was placed in the grave underwent a change from mortal to immortal, and thus the grave was empty once He left it. One body, existing first as a natural body, then upon resurrection as a spiritual body. When the resurrection occurs, the NATURAL BODY IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. Why? Because the natural body has become the spiritual body. The grave is empty, nothing is there except the graveclothes. The natural body and the spiritual body are the same body under two different circumstances.

Esaias, the natural body and the spiritual body are not the same, period. You yourself have been quoting Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, one form is corruptible the other form is incorruptible.

Second, when Jesus was resurrected and presented himself before the disciples that was not his spiritual body.

Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a SPIRIT hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

The reason why the grave clothes were in the grave was because... he didn't need grave clothes we wasn't dead! Just like Jesus wouldn't of had a beggars garment on, because he wasn't a begger. They were able to physically touch him, they fed him fish, a spirit has no need for food. our spiritual body will not have flesh and bones, will not have need of food. he came in the physical body to present himself to those believers, just like the men that rose up from the grave and presented themselves in the city, they had to be known of the people for that wave offering to be fulfilled in Matthew 26. Jesus as well made himself known in a physical way to the disciples. Not because our physical body will be translated into our spiritual body.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

The subject is concerning “glorified flesh”, we can’t just look at 1Corinthians 15 and point out the flesh here and there, look as to how it was created, what Jesus said about it, how it has been connected to sin. The phyiscal flesh, carnal man has roots of sin. Easias, (we can talk about this later) in the physical we look the same after the Holy Ghost expierence, do you think we look the same to Jesus after that experience?

By "glorified flesh" are we to understand the phrase as referring to a belief that Jesus' hysical individual personal body was glorified by being resurrected and changed from mortal to immortal? Or are you using the phrase "glorified flesh" to mean that unregenerate human "flesh" in general was or is or will be "glorified"? Do you mean that people are inadvertently "glorifying flesh" by means of their particular doctrines? Here is what you started the discussion with:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Would like to know what others believe as far as Jesus’ body? Is it the same flesh yet glorified in the heavens? Did he go back to the spirit form he was before robing himself in flesh?

It seems the subject is Jesus' body. So going to 1 Cor 15, which explicitly addresses the subject of Jesus' resurrection and its relation to our resurrection, including the question "with what body are the dead raised", is a very logical first stop in a discussion about Jesus' esurrection, and the nature of a resurrected body.

As for the subject of the Fall and its consequences, universal depravity, etc, that was likewise addressed in 1 Cor 15 when Paul discusses the CHANGE that takes place, the distinction between natural and spiritual, corruption and incorruption, weakness and power, etc. Moreover, the question of "roots of sin" has no bearing on answering the question "did Jesus lose His body at the ascension"". Regardless of what anyone believes about "roots of sin", all are agreed that Jesus was and is without sin. So, "roots of sin" aren't actually relevant to the discussion.

Unless you believe Jesus had "roots of sin"?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Esaias, the natural body and the spiritual body are not the same, period. You yourself have been quoting Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, one form is corruptible the other form is incorruptible.

Second, when Jesus was resurrected and presented himself before the disciples that was not his spiritual body.

The apostle said when a body is resurrected, it is resurrected "a spiritual body". I provided the scripture that says EXACTLY what I am claiming. You have not provided the scripture that says "when Jesurrected He didn't have a spiritual body yet", or "Jesus got His spiritual body at the ascension."

I already pointed out that the natural body and the spiritual body are, according to Paul, one body in two different states. IT is sown in corruption, IT is raised in incorruption. IT is sown a natural body, IT is raised a spiritual body. "It" is a pronoun that is SINGULAR. A pronoun stands in place of a noun. In this case, "it" means "the body." The body is sown in weakness, the body is raised in power. The body is sown a natural body, the body is raised a spiritual body.

Kind of like how there is a carnal man, and a spiritual man, although they are the same man. A carnal man who becomes a Christian is no longer a carnal man, but a spiritual man. Yet, it is the same man. When we say a "new" man, we mean the man has CHANGED and acquired new qualities, not that Fred has been replaced by Bob.

The reason why the grave clothes were in the grave was because... he didn't need grave clothes we wasn't dead! Just like Jesus wouldn't of had a beggars garment on, because he wasn't a begger. They were able to physically touch him, they fed him fish, a spirit has no need for food. our spiritual body will not have flesh and bones, will not have need of food. he came in the physical body to present himself to those believers, just like the men that rose up from the grave and presented themselves in the city, they had to be known of the people for that wave offering to be fulfilled in Matthew 26. Jesus as well made himself known in a physical way to the disciples. Not because our physical body will be translated into our spiritual body.

No scripture says a spirit hath not flesh AND BONES. He said flesh AND BLOOD. The Bible says the life of the flesh is in THE BLOOD. That is the natural body, the image of the first man Adam, his life is in his blood. If he bleeds out he dies. In resurrection, however, the life is in THE SPIRIT. The body is not animated by the blood but by the Spirit.

More to the point, however, He said behold it is I. He specifically said He wasn't a spirit and His touchable body was PROOF HE WAS REALLY ALIVE AND NOT SOME SPOOK. Somehow you completely miss the significance of that. It quite overthrows your theory altogether.

Jesus had no need to pretend. He was really alive. There was no body in the grave because He was resurrected. You never explained why there was no body left in the grave, nor did you address the issue of our resurrection being so very unlike His, in your theory. You never explained why nowadays bodies stay in graves when Christians are allegedly resurrected at death, even though when Jesus - the firstfruits of the resurrection - left behind no body.

You also did not show the scriptures that say at the ascension His body dissipated or "became spiritual".

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Bang bang.........

Looking good Nic, looking good.

[Esaias]

I cannot help but wonder why nobody can just post the scriptures that say "Jesus is no longer a man", or "Jesus has no body because it's a spiritual body" (wait, wut? lol), or "Jesus got a spiritual body at the ascension", or "Jesus lost His resurrection body at the ascension"?

I mean, it would sure make short work of the thread, wouldn't it?