Going To Trinity Churches ? - Page 12

OnTheFritz · #**111** 02-19-2009, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Though I agree with much of what you said. The above in bold is a totaly incorrect. If you think such you lack much understanding!

I understand what your point is here, but you continue to prove my point by stating "facts" that you can't possibly know

OnTheFritz · #**112** 02-19-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

baptizing in the name of F,S,HS is false. Yes! Is it part of the original text? No, IMO!

Again - you are stating opinion as fact. Why do we still acknowledge Matt 28:19 as part of the Bible that we hold as infallible? Should we remove it? Should we footnote it? Is it not understandable that many would find this an appropriate way to baptize?

LUKE2447 · #**113** 02-19-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheFritz

I understand what your point is here, but you continue to prove my point by stating "facts" that you can't possibly know

nt

LUKE2447 · #**114** 02-19-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheFritz

I understand what your point is here, but you continue to prove my point by stating "facts" that you can't possibly know

Sure I can. You contruct was that of Trinitarian view = So, is it the same Jesus we know. Oneness Theology and Trinitarian Theology do not equal the same Jesus. From a theological point they are very very different. I don't have to speak of relationship but of Jesus within the construction of doctrine of which perceived from who he was in the Bible. Yes many things are similar as is Oneness with JW's etc.. What you said is not true. Because we say Jesus is 100% God and they do as well does not equal what 100% is in each view. JW's believe JEsus is 100% divine. Is that the same as us? No, as the term and uses are different.

LUKE2447 · #**115** 02-19-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheFritz

Again - you are stating opinion as fact. Why do we still acknowledge Matt 28:19 as part of the Bible that we hold as infallible? Should we remove it? Should we footnote it? Is it not understandable that many would find this an appropriate way to baptize?

Who says everyone agree in your views of Bibliology? God's Word is infallible does not equate to texts and interpolations don't happen. 1 John 5:7 is a perfect example.

SHould we remove it only matters to the individual and what they perceive is right in the text. Does our belief die with that ONE text? No! Our is backed up the WHOLE of the Word. Does F,S,HS die? Yes! As what would you have to stand on? The whole point is to stand on something the rest of the Bible does not teach is faulty ground. Considering everything...... Yes, it is false teaching as I see nobody doing anything in the name of the F,S, HS anywhere! So how can I do something in which I see no example? That is def a leap of faith.

OnTheFritz · #**116** 02-19-2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Sure I can. You contruct was that of Trinitarian view = So, is it the same Jesus we know. Oneness Theology and Trinitarian Theology do not equal the same Jesus. From a theological point they are very very different. I don't have to speak of relationship but of Jesus within the construction of doctrine of which perceived from who he was in the Bible. Yes man thigns are similar as is Oneness with JW's etc.. What you said is not true. Because we say Jesus is 100% God and they do as well does not equal what 100% is in wach view. JW's believe JEsus is 100% divine. Is that the same as us? No, as the term and uses are different.

I acknowledge that it is a fact that the trinitarian and oneness views of Jesus are different. But, what I don't acknowledge is that the oneness view is 100% correct. I think it is the closest we can come to fathoming the mystery of God, but I am not convinced that the variances between the oneness view and the trinitarian view are enough to condemn trinitarians to hell.

OnTheFritz · #**117** 02-19-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Who says everyone agree in your views of Bibliology? God's Word is infallible does not equate to texts and interpolations don't happen. 1 John 5:7 is a perfect example.

SHould we remove it only matters to the individual and what they perceive is right in the text. Does our belief die with that ONE text? No! Our is backed up the WHOLE of the Word. Does F,S,HS die? Yes! As what would you have to stand on? The whole point is to stand on something the rest of the Bible does not teach is faulty ground. Considering everything...... Yes, it is false teaching as I see nobody doing anything in the name of the F,S, HS anywhere! So how can I do something in which I see no example? That is def a leap of faith.

Really? So we can choose to remove portions of the Bible based on our perceptions?

What would we have to stand on? The Words of Jesus.

That is a leap. To consider Matt 28:19 false teaching because an actual example of that particular form is not cited in the rest of the New Testament. Do you see an example of every command we are given in the Bible? And if not, do you disregard it?

When you do something "in the name" of someone, do you always speak their name before you do it? Sam had a good post earlier in the thread that deals with this issue.

I agree with much of what you say as well. I just get hung up on the evidence you use as support for your facts.

LUKE2447 · #**118** 02-19-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheFritz

I acknowledge that it is a fact that the trinitarian and oneness views of Jesus are different. But, what I don't acknowledge is that the oneness view is 100% correct. I think it is the closest we can come to fathoming the mystery of God, but I am not convinced that the variances between the oneness view and the trinitarian view are enough to condemn trinitarians to hell.

I leave it up to God to decide. That though is not the point of what you said. You said it is the same JEsus because each was 100% God and that is not true. The whole of who he is changes when a person understands different forms of Oneness and Trinitarianism. I cannot accept divine flesh doctrine because it is clearly false teaching and negates Christ and his humanity etc... Guess what Jesus is 100% God there too! Is that big? Yes! Is it heaven or hell? I 100% don't know! I will still teach it is false just as I would Trinitarianism. Does it mean I don't love them or pray etc... No! Somethings we can teach as absolute truths, somethings are assumptions. Do we know the inward working of the humanity and deity perfectly? No! That though is not the total issue with Trinitarians though!

LUKE2447 · #**119** 02-19-2009, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheFritz

Really? So we can choose to remove portions of the Bible based on our perceptions?

What would we have to stand on? The Words of Jesus.

That is a leap. To consider Matt 28:19 false teaching because an actual example of that particular form is not cited in the rest of the New Testament. Do you see an example of every command we are given in the Bible? And if not, do you disregard it?

When you do something "in the name" of someone, do you always speak their name before you do it? Sam had a good post earlier in the thread that deals with this issue.

I agree with much of what you say as well. I just get hung up on the evidence you use as support for your facts.

WHo said that is the Bible? JEsus? God! Got scripture? Got the originals? My evidence is the what the whole says. Not just "one" scripture verse! Also I have much more I could add but am a little busy as this will probably be my last post for a while. Have you read anything abut MAtt 28:19? That would be a good place to start.

Also yes, translations remove portions all the time do to textual evidence which is perception.

OnTheFritz · #**120** 02-19-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

I leave it up to God to decide. That though is not the point of what you said. You said it is the same JEsus because each was 100% God and that is not true. The whole of who he is changes when a person understands different forms of Oneness and Trinitarianism. I cannot accept divine flesh doctrine because it is clearly false teaching and negates Christ and his humanity etc... Guess what Jesus is 100% God there too! Is that big? Yes! Is it heaven or hell? I 100% don't know! I will still teach it is false just as I would Trinitarianism. Doesn't mean I don't love them or pray etc... No! Somethings we can teach as truth somethings are assumptions. Do we know the inward working of the humanity and deity perfectly? No! That though is not the total issue with Trinitarians though!

You're right. There are differences even amongst different trinitarian and oneness groups. And I do think these things matter. But, I just think it's healthy to keep some perspective about how much our understanding really is just that - our understanding. We do that best we can...