Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns - Page 130

Tlswift2009 · #**1291** 11-19-2012, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H Gang

CC1 you aren't off like PM says you are. This is the predominant trend in the UPC among the premier churches and elite ministries.

Often these churches are told by pastor, ministers on staff, visiting ministers that they are "special" church, among the best of the best, and that they really are the only place in town where the presence and favor of God can be found like it is found there. An elitist mentality becomes a part of the culture of that church.

Prophecies that the jewel of the city church will one day experience a great outpouring, revival, move of God that will bring in the hordes of sinners and further validate their superior standing with God and validate their deeper spirituality are common, furthering the attitude that at any moment an Azusa Street type revival is about to happen. The slightest evidence of supernatural activity: a bonafide miracle, a significant number of people speaking receiving the HG, outbreaks like we saw on YouTube of folks shouting and getting crazy at Cracker Barrel stirs the emotions that it's about to happen.

The congregation begins to believe this brainwashing that they are THE church, the best place to find God and have the deep spiritual experience and revelations they receive, unlike any other in town. They become condescending to other churches in and out of their denomination and they proselytize often.

Then when something like this goes down, there is a crisis within the members of the church. Some realize it was a big farce and that the arrogance and self righteousness was wrong, they are humbled and learn from the experience. Others unfortunately are too intoxicated with themselves and although their hero and the icon of their superiority has fallen, they cannot give up on the idea that they are that special place where God visits in a unique and exclusive way.

Ergo, many will remain blind to what really caused the problem in the first place and keep hanging on to the dream. They even believe the fall of their pastor will be the very thing that will usher in that great move of God they were promised so many times.

There is NO superiority among any of God's Churches: THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS MENTALITY!!! The bible lets us no that "Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he"...St. Matthew 11:11. This let's us know that HUMILITY among God's people is what's expected of God. There are NO Big I's, and Little U's in the Church of Jesus Christ. PRIDE goeth before destruction and a HAUGTY spirit before the fall. What will it take Lord for people realize that you hate the spirit of Pride and Arrogance????

Tlswift2009 · #**1292** 11-19-2012, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

There is no doubt that the only thing that brings a soul harvest is sowing seed to lost people. There is no doubt that what brings a revival in spiritual fervour is repentance, fasting, and prayer. The real challenge for ALL of us is a return to the application of the Word of God to our lives first. His word is exalted above all His name. Jesus said "He that hears and does these words of mine...".

AMEN!!!!

The Lemon · #**1293** 11-20-2012, 08:04 AM

Hmmmmmm.....I have no problem voicing my opinions on issues that I disagree with concerning church culture or "house rules", but that beiong said - I do believe you can learn from anyone...even a heathen...but in my experience, the depth of worship and preaching, and prayer in an Apostolic Church is second to none.

Mostly I attribute this to the freedom of the Holy Ghost, and the emphasis on praying in the spirit, as well as worshiping in the spirit. I don't, however, believe it is because of certain distinctives, although I do believe that a heart and life that is consecrated to God is powerful.

Anyway..

Originalist · #**1294** 11-20-2012, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1

I find it hard to believe that anybody would argue that old time Pentecost / UPC is not a closed religious culture. The emphasis is on their dinstinctives both doctrinal and dress code. They do not consider those who believe differently to be Christian brothers or sisters and most do not even think they can learn anything from reading a book or hearing a sermon from someone outside of their specific belief system. If that is not a closed culture I don't know what is.

At one time all of this may have been true. But I think there has been drastic improvement in this area. I'd say that at least 51% now gleen from non-apostolic Christian sources. That number probably is higher.

ILG · #**1295** 11-20-2012, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1

I find it hard to believe that anybody would argue that old time Pentecost / UPC is not a closed religious culture. The emphasis is on their dinstinctives both doctrinal and dress code. They do not consider those who believe differently to be Christian brothers or sisters and most do not even think they can learn anything from reading a book or hearing a sermon from someone outside of their specific belief system. If that is not a closed culture I don't know what is.

I agree that it is a closed culture, but I always found it odd that PPH sold books written by trinitarians....

deltaguitar · #**1296** 11-20-2012, 09:05 AM

I go to a large church. A few years ago the church was running 3000 and our pastor was still making 17,000 a year. I go to a traditionally baptist church though it is nothing like a baptist church in the last 10 years.

There is accountability and many many people on staff. This just doesn't happen in the Oneness pentecostal culture. The guy who founded the church usually is the head guy and many times his family is close in ministry with him. If there is a board the board usually consist on a few men in the church who don't really have anything to do with the church governance. They don't usually set the pastors salary or pay bills or decide where the money goes.

An example of our church, last year the church has some outstanding debt on our building of about 2 million. Well, our pastor wanted to give more to missions and church plants but the elders wanted to pay down the debt. There was some healthy tension there and so the pastor just came forward and told the church that the elders being the good stewards that they were wanted to pay down the debt and if people would see it in their hearts to give to pay off the debt then we could then plant more churches. This was not mentioned again but a few months later the pastor came out and stated that the debt was paid off. It was that simple.

The church gives about 200k a month to missions and church plants and can now up that amount to spread the gospel.

And to disagree with Lemon, I think that Apostolic churches have a different atmosphere all together. My "baptist" church has such a pure and wonderful feeling of worship and grace during worship. I really feel the holy spirit. We have no fast music, no altar calls, etc but people are saved and transformed by the power of the spirit and the results are sincere. I know many who are pentecostal wouldn't understand but I cannot describe how amazing the church service is. Now, where I will agree with Lemon is that most traditional baptist churches are so stiff that almost no one could get into it and in that regard the apostolics at least have lively music and praise.

H Gang · #**1297** 11-20-2012, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lemon

but in my experience, the depth of worship and preaching, and prayer in an Apostolic Church is second to none.

Mostly I attribute this to the freedom of the Holy Ghost, and the emphasis on praying in the spirit, as well as worshiping in the spirit. I don't, however, believe it is because of certain distinctives, although I do believe that a heart and life that is consecrated to God is powerful.

It's this very attitude that so many in the movement are blind to. You probably don't realize what an elitist attitude your statement betrays.

"Second to none"? Really? Compared to what? Are we ranking churches like college football teams trying to determine who's number one? "Freedom of the Holy Ghost"? What's that? You mean the freedom to get crazy, fall out, scream, run, roll on the floor, blurt out in tongues, etc? Was I Corinthians 14 written for nothing? Does the NT offer any instruction and guidance for the use of the gifts of the Spirit for nothing?

"Emphasis on praying in the Spirit"---what does that mean? Does the Bible place an emphasis on praying in the Spirit? Is that what we see consistently throughout the NT? Or maybe an emphasis on faith and preaching the Gospel?

"A life consecrated to God"---another arrogant attitude here. In other words, traditional standards of lifestyle means you are more consecrated than other so-called Christians and power is manifested in your life and in your churches b/c God deems y'all special b/c of your personal sacrifices to be holy.

It's the same old HMH doctrine, we have things happen in our churches that happen nowhere else, because we are better than those other churches, we are deeper spiritually, we have a unique exclusive relationship with God.

It's phony. It's a lie. God is with anyone who is hungry for Him. God is leading and guiding people all over the world with diversities of doctrines and teachings on a lot of fronts. But He will respond to faith period. He will respond to genuine worship whether exuberant or reverent. There are deeply spiritual Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Charismatics, Evangelicals, Lutherans, etc.

I don't understand the need to always place my church above everyone else's or place my experience above everyone else's. I don't know how this attitude crept into the Apostolic movement. From what I read and know of the elders and their history, they were humble men and women, they loved God and they simply wanted to see folks get saved. But now it's "we've got the best preachers, the best music, the best worship, the best doctrine, the best _____________." Its this very haughtiness that leads to the kind of fall we see in Memphis. It's sickening. Get over yourself.

If you love Jesus, you believe in Him and His Word, and you're covered by His blood, you're my brother in Christ. I can agree to disagree over peripheral issues and not belittle you as an inferior.