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10-11-2007, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianoman
"Bragging" was too strong a word, and for that I apologize. My main point is that I'm wondering how many mixed culture Apostolic churches have black pastors.
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Interesting question. I think that there are probably many, particular in the areas I mentioned earlier.
The reason I say this is because there are areas now in North America where there is such huge racial cultural diversity - especially in the larger cities - that I can't see how it could be prevented.
The church should reflect the neighborhood where it's situated and when there has been such major immigration of people all over the world moving into cities in the U.S. and Canada if you're reaching your world at all then the racial diversity should be reflected in the church.
Just my thots and totally open to hearing what others have to say about this.
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Smiles & Blessings....
~Felicity Welsh~
(surname courtesy of Jim Yohe)
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10-11-2007, 08:40 AM
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Create Your Own Rainbows!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Adamsville, TN
Posts: 8,492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity
I think the platform should mirror the church.
In other words, if you have a church that is multi-racial, that should be reflected on the platform, in committees, boards and involvement in every department.
Race itself shouldn't prevent a person from being involved or used, but people shouldn't be chosen for position based on their race solely either. They should be chosen because they're interested in serving, have the ability and meet the church guidelines for being involved.
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Sorry. I made my comment backwards. I think the platform should mirror the church. But I think the church will go only as far as the leadership is willing to go....
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I hate to see you frown. So wear a bag over your head until you cheer up!
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10-11-2007, 08:43 AM
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Still Figuring It Out.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianoman
"Bragging" was too strong a word, and for that I apologize. My main point is that I'm wondering how many mixed culture Apostolic churches have black pastors.
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Again... why does it matter?
As I mentioned before this issue will always be an issue until people stop seeing color.
These things are not cured by "affirmative action" type notions that portray a feeling that all is not right until a "black person" is in this position or a "white person" is in that position.
Our 50/50 church just voted in the new pastor in May with a 92% "for" vote.
It seems that things would be more "kosher" in your eyes if one particular race were voted in over another. That... to me... seems like a racist position in itself.
As I said before... when we forget the color thing entirely and stop keeping count is when we move past this issue.
Reading this thread (the few times I have subjected myself to its content) I see no hope that we will reach this point anytime soon.
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10-11-2007, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamor
Sorry. I made my comment backwards. I think the platform should mirror the church. But I think the church will go only as far as the leadership is willing to go....
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True, usually. There are dynamics that can mess that up. Like a deep-rooted power/control group, ideologies, beliefs, and belief systems in the church that can make things difficult for both the people and the pastor.
__________________
Smiles & Blessings....
~Felicity Welsh~
(surname courtesy of Jim Yohe)
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10-11-2007, 09:07 AM
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Step By Step - Day By Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
Again... why does it matter?
As I mentioned before this issue will always be an issue until people stop seeing color.
These things are not cured by "affirmative action" type notions that portray a feeling that all is not right until a "black person" is in this position or a "white person" is in that position.
Our 50/50 church just voted in the new pastor in May with a 92% "for" vote.
It seems that things would be more "kosher" in your eyes if one particular race were voted in over another. That... to me... seems like a racist position in itself.
As I said before... when we forget the color thing entirely and stop keeping count is when we move past this issue.
Reading this thread (the few times I have subjected myself to its content) I see no hope that we will reach this point anytime soon.
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I'm not sure that we will ever get to the point where we don't see "color". Color really isn't the problem anyway imo. Culture can be more of a problem which we've found out pastoring a multi-racial church.
It's not as easy as we think for some of these cultures to be absorbed into the western church and it's not all OUR fault either. The will can be there and the desire can be there for this to happen, but in reality absorption has difficulties.
__________________
Smiles & Blessings....
~Felicity Welsh~
(surname courtesy of Jim Yohe)
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10-11-2007, 09:29 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 210
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Sitting on my platform every Sunday night are two black preachers, one hispanic preacher, and three white preachers.
However, not a single one is up there because of their race and none are kept off because of their race.
We have more hispanics than blacks (slightly) but they are not offended by the mix on the platform.
I would have all-white, all-black, or whatever. The requirement is the calling and the consecration...not race.
The ministry is no place for racism or affirmative action. When a church has neither God's calling and placing is the deciding factor. The sin comes in if anyone is unwilling to train, work with, utilize men because of their race.
The lack of racism in our church is not because of its location. Our minorities run into this factor at work all the time.
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10-11-2007, 09:34 AM
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Still Figuring It Out.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity
I'm not sure that we will ever get to the point where we don't see "color". Color really isn't the problem anyway imo. Culture can be more of a problem which we've found out pastoring a multi-racial church.
It's not as easy as we think for some of these cultures to be absorbed into the western church and it's not all OUR fault either. The will can be there and the desire can be there for this to happen, but in reality absorption has difficulties.
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I agree.
Truly color is not as much an issue as culture. When anyone has a blatant culture difference which they wish to maintain and display then assimilation into another culture is difficult and forced at best.
If I were to go to church in a place that had a very strong cultural leaning then I would always stick out as the one who just didn't quite "get it" in terms of their cultural practices.
I would have the choice of taking on their cultural practices, inflections etc or always be the different one. Even then it would never be the same.
People of differing ethnic backgrounds and yet similar cultural leanings should be able to move past color. It is easier to gain the "melting pot" scenario when dealing only with color. Culture is what causes portions of the mix solidify against others and maintain its own identity within the mixture.
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10-11-2007, 09:35 AM
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Still Figuring It Out.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh
Sitting on my platform every Sunday night are two black preachers, one hispanic preacher, and three white preachers.
However, not a single one is up there because of their race and none are kept off because of their race.
We have more hispanics than blacks (slightly) but they are not offended by the mix on the platform.
I would have all-white, all-black, or whatever. The requirement is the calling and the consecration...not race.
The ministry is no place for racism or affirmative action. When a church has neither God's calling and placing is the deciding factor. The sin comes in if anyone is unwilling to train, work with, utilize men because of their race.
The lack of racism in our church is not because of its location. Our minorities run into this factor at work all the time.
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Well said....
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10-11-2007, 09:38 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: in the north unfortunately
Posts: 6,476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
Well said....
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good job for both of you, amen, dt  
__________________
A product of a pentecostal raisin, I am a hard man, just ask my children 
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10-11-2007, 09:54 AM
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Beautiful are the feet......
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Right...behind...you!
Posts: 6,600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
Again... why does it matter?
As I mentioned before this issue will always be an issue until people stop seeing color.
These things are not cured by "affirmative action" type notions that portray a feeling that all is not right until a "black person" is in this position or a "white person" is in that position.
Our 50/50 church just voted in the new pastor in May with a 92% "for" vote.
It seems that things would be more "kosher" in your eyes if one particular race were voted in over another. That... to me... seems like a racist position in itself.
As I said before... when we forget the color thing entirely and stop keeping count is when we move past this issue.
Reading this thread (the few times I have subjected myself to its content) I see no hope that we will reach this point anytime soon.
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As others have said, if you truly desire a multi-cultural church you should reflect it in who is in leadership positions. (board members, musicians, song leaders, teachers, ushers, etc.)
Which comes first, the leaders or the members? Those with a vision will pick the leaders first! JMHO
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