Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

[tv1a]

The Simon the Sorcorer analogy suggests commercializing the God's gift is wrong. Big difference.

Jesus said he must be about my father's business. Christ had an accountant in His inner circle.

The idea of business isn't a worldly concept. The Jewish nation began with a sucessful business owner. The Bible gives many directives in running an ethical business. The Bible mentions finances more than it mentions heaven. The Bible teaches principles of financial success that translates into the church.

How are you going to feed the poor and help the widows without an infrastructure in place? The Bible says money answereth all things.

Paul practiced corporate accountability. He mentioned his involvement or lack thereof a few times. Paul gave the directive how the funds were going to get to the needy at Jerusalem.

The reason Christians recoil at the thought of a church as a business is because of a stronhold that business and money are evil. How a person conducts business and handles money is a great character indicator.

Originally Posted by Jabez

Name scriptural 'corporate accountability' in the church.

Jesus said that my kingdom is not of this world. So if you are running your church like the world, then you do not have the mind of Christ. You have a worldly mind. James 4:4 said that whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Simon the sorcerer thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Peter told him that he had no part or lot in the matter. That his money perishes with him. Peter perceived that he was in the gall of bitterness and the bond of iniquity because he thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money. So therefore if you 'invest' money in someone or something, what are you expecting back? Something spiritual or something carnal?

Corporate is a worldly term. You have to align yourself with the worldly system to incorporate. Christ told us to come out from among them and be separate.

[tv1a]

Don't feed the sharks. Numbers can be manipulated. Either way.

Originally Posted by sallums66

80-100 people have NOT left. It is closer to 20-40.....I have been a member since 1993.

[Jabez]

Originally Posted by tv1a

The Simon the Sorcorer analogy suggests commercializing the God's gift is wrong. Big difference.

In Ephesians 4:11, if you claim to have at least one of these gifts and you are desiring some form of payment either in money or other substance, then you are chargeable to men. Paul wasn't chargeable to any man. II Corinthians 11:9.

Originally Posted by tv1a

Jesus said he must be about my father's business. Christ had an accountant in His inner circle.

Jesus was only about 12-years-old when he made this statement. He had no inner circle at that age. He was teaching the scribes and pharisees...answering their question. The gospel was His father's business, not a corporation that exchanges money and uses an accountant. Please give some scripture to back up your statement?

But let's just say, for the sake of discussion, you are right about Jesus having a business in the concept that we know business is performed today.
What possessions in his business did Jesus own when he was crucified on that cross at Calvary?

The Bible says that the only thing he owned was his clothes on his back and that was divided up by casting lots by a bunch of soldiers.

Jesus said that foxes have holes and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.

Where is this business Jesus had that you are talking about? And do not forget that his "accountant" betrayed him.

Originally Posted by tv1a

The idea of business isn't a worldly concept. The Jewish nation began with a sucessful business owner.

Who? I presume you are talking about Abraham? Most of what Abraham owned was given to him by Kings and by spoil. Is this how you classify businessmen? LOL

Originally Posted by tv1a

The Bible gives many directives in running an ethical business. The Bible mentions finances more than it mentions heaven. The Bible teaches principles of financial success that translates into the church.

OK. If finances is in the bible more than heaven is, then you should not have any problem posting some of those scriptures here so that we can have a closer look and a more accurate discussion.

This is what I find in the Bible about business.

James 4:13-15
Go to now, ye that say, today or tomorrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:

Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanishes away.

For that ye ought to say, if the Lord will, we shall live and do this or that.

Originally Posted by tv1a

How are you going to feed the poor and help the widows without an infrastructure in place?

32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. (ACTS 20:32-35)

Paul was a tentmaker. He made tents and sold them and did not use the Gospel for his gain or for his necessities.

Paul said, "I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak,"

So I have to ask, Is the ministry weak so that the people must support them? Paul was talking to the elders in these passages.

It's been my experience that people conduct business in your traditional way take from the very people you claim to support.

Originally Posted by tv1a

The Bible says money answereth all things.

Money does answer all that pertains to laughter and being merry, yes indeedy. But it isn't the correct answer for everything. For those who truly believe that money answers all, it is your god. You serve the art of obtaining money.

That is business. Yes that is a business as you say.

Jesus said in Matthew 6:24
¶No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

So....you either serve money or you serve Jesus...which one do you serve?

Originally Posted by tv1a

Paul practiced corporate accountability. He mentioned his involvement or lack thereof a few times. Paul gave the directive how the funds were going to get to the needy at Jerusalem.

You make this sound like it was a great ordeal. Paul simply went around to all the Gentile churches that he started to take up a collection for the needy saints at Jerusalem and he took the money himself. LOL Romans 15:25-27 , I Corinthians 16:1-3

Originally Posted by tv1a

The reason Christians recoil at the thought of a church as a business is because of a stronhold that business and money are evil. How a person conducts business and handles money is a great character indicator.

Corporations and business are not evil in itself. They operate on buying, selling and profit.

What alliance does the Gospel of Jesus Christ have mingled with worldly business principles when Jesus Himself cast the money-changers out of the temple. He said my Father's house shall be called a house of prayer, but ye have made it a den of thieves.

31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:31-33

You are seeking after a business rather than the Kingdom of God when you want to misinterpret biblical principles and make a monetary gain off of the Gospel. You simply cannot sell the Gospel out of the Bible to people and make a business for yourself out of it. God gave us the Gospel freely and freely we should give to others.

Paul said in Romans 1:14 that he was a debtor. He owed people to bring the gospel to them. By preaching the gospel to people, he fulfilled his debt.

BTW, I give you plenty of scripture, but you give only your own interpretation of scripture without actually quoting any verses to support your doctrine.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Jabez

In Ephesians 4:11, if you claim to have at least one of these gifts and you are desiring some form of payment either in money or other substance, then you are chargeable to men. Paul wasn't chargeable to any man. II Corinthians 11:9.



Jesus was only about 12-years-old when he made this statement. He had no inner circle at that age. He was teaching the scribes and pharisees...answering their question. The gospel was His father's business, not a corporation that exchanges money and uses an accountant. Please give some scripture to back up your statement?

But let's just say, for the sake of discussion, you are right about Jesus having a business in the concept that we know business is performed today.
What possessions in his business did Jesus own when he was crucified on that cross at Calvary?

The Bible says that the only thing he owned was his clothes on his back and that was divided up by casting lots by a bunch of soldiers.

Jesus said that foxes have holes and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.

Where is this business Jesus had that you are talking about? And do not forget that his "accountant" betrayed him.



Who? I presume you are talking about Abraham? Most of what Abraham owned was given to him by Kings and by spoil. Is this how you classify businessmen? LOL



OK. If finances is in the bible more than heaven is, then you should not have any problem posting some of those scriptures here so that we can have a closer look and a more accurate discussion.

This is what I find in the Bible about business.

James 4:13-15
Go to now, ye that say, today or tomorrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:

Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanishes away.

For that ye ought to say, if the Lord will, we shall live and do this or that.



32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. (ACTS 20:32-35)

Paul was a tentmaker. He made tents and sold them and did not use the Gospel for his gain or for his necessities.

Paul said, "I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak,"

So I have to ask, Is the ministry weak so that the people must support them? Paul was talking to the elders in these passages.

It's been my experience that people conduct business in your traditional way take from the very people you claim to support.




Money does answer all that pertains to laughter and being merry, yes indeedy. But it isn't the correct answer for everything. For those who truly believe that money answers all, it is your god. You serve the art of obtaining money.

That is business. Yes that is a business as you say.

Jesus said in Matthew 6:24
¶No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

So....you either serve money or you serve Jesus...which one do you serve?



You make this sound like it was a great ordeal. Paul simply went around to all the Gentile churches that he started to take up a collection for the needy saints at Jerusalem and he took the money himself. LOL Romans 15:25-27 , I Corinthians 16:1-3



Corporations and business are not evil in itself. They operate on buying, selling and profit.

What alliance does the Gospel of Jesus Christ have mingled with worldly business principles when Jesus Himself cast the money-changers out of the temple. He said my Father's house shall be called a house of prayer, but ye have made it a den of thieves.

31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:31-33

You are seeking after a business rather than the Kingdom of God when you want to misinterpret biblical principles and make a monetary gain off of the Gospel. You simply cannot sell the Gospel out of the Bible to people and make a business for yourself out of it. God gave us the Gospel freely and freely we should give to others.

Paul said in Romans 1:14 that he was a debtor. He owed people to bring the gospel to them. By preaching the gospel to people, he fulfilled his debt.

BTW, I give you plenty of scripture, but you give only your own interpretation of scripture without actually quoting any verses to support your doctrine.

Many of these passages are not just addressing ministers but everyone so are you guys going to work for free?

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by Jabez

The Bible says that the only thing he owned was his clothes on his back and that was divided up by casting lots by a bunch of soldiers.

Jesus said that foxes have holes and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.

Paul was a tentmaker. He made tents and sold them and did not use the Gospel for his gain or for his necessities.

For those who truly believe that money answers all, it is your god. You serve the art of obtaining money.

What alliance does the Gospel of Jesus Christ have mingled with worldly business principles when Jesus Himself cast the money-changers out of the temple. He said my Father's house shall be called a house of prayer, but ye have made it a den of thieves.

You are seeking after a business rather than the Kingdom of God when you want to misinterpret biblical principles and make a monetary gain off of the Gospel. You simply cannot sell the Gospel out of the Bible to people and make a business for yourself out of it. God gave us the Gospel freely and freely we should give to others.

[Jabez]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Many of these passages are not just addressing ministers but everyone so are you guys going to work for free?

When it comes to the Gospel, YES!


7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
9 And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.
When it comes to laboring with my hands (II Corinthians 11:7-9)

Paul accounted taking wages from churches as being being robbery. He was chargeable to no man.

Paul labored with his hands and took wages for that, but not for the preaching of the Gospel.

The same with me. I work with my hands for a living and preach freely taking no money for scriptural teachings.

This scripture, II Corinthians 12: verses 14 and 15 shows the heart of Paul that many preachers very well lack.

[Fiyahstarter]

Can we get an AMEN???

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Jabez

When it comes to the Gospel, YES!


7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
9 And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.
When it comes to laboring with my hands (II Corinthians 11:7-9)

Paul accounted taking wages from churches as being being robbery. He was chargeable to no man.

Paul labored with his hands and took wages for that, but not for the preaching of the Gospel.

The same with me. I work with my hands for a living and preach freely taking no money for scriptural teachings.

This scripture, II Corinthians 12: verses 14 and 15 shows the heart of Paul that many preachers very well lack.

It saddens me(not really) to burst your balloon but Paul was wrong.

[Tlswift2009]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

If the SILs were ignorant of what TB was doing that is an alternative and tell TB to get a seat and sit down and shut up. 80-100 folks is a good bunch to start with and who needs the UPC?????

A 2-Fold situation: adultery and the splitting/scattering of God's sheep. I'd be in sheer terror not only for adultery but mishandling God's people. My wife and I were sent IN 1989 to repair a church that was devestated by the adultery of the pastor; it was a very foul and unrepented blatant affair with the pastor and a sister in the church; they were very foul with their conduct; even after being caught in the very act. The pastor, and woman was ousted out of the church, but his wife stayed and did well. God blessed me and my wife to do very well at seeing the people healed, and the church flourished very well with an abundance of growth/outreach/prison, care home; bus ministry, and radio over the next 2-3 years: thank God: God was with the church {as He is with TPC}, and the church survived and went on to glory under our leadership.

The fallen Pastor never did properly repent, but he became bitter because the leadeship delt with him very sternly; which they were correct to do so. This fallen Pastor would call me from time-to-time over the next few years; but he never would repent. Well, this fallen pastor decided one day to stay home from work and varnish some kitchen cabinets; he was working with a highly flammable substance that sparked a flame and burned this man up alive!!!! Although this fallen former pastor never would be fit to lead God's sheep again; he had 7 years to repent and get his life restored whereas he could at least be saved, but he never took the proper oppportunities that were before Him; God is merciful; even to the backslidders that he declares that he's married to.


If I were in the predicament of TB; I'd be in terror to repent, and to stand before the church and repent, and ask for forgiveness, and then I'd beg forgiveness of my wife, and plead with God to restore me that I might be saved; I would not attempt to Pastor and lead a renegade ministry; it's very improper and dangerous {look what happened to unrepented Jom Swaggart; he fell again into the same sin(s)}. It may appear that God is quiet, and nothing's happening, but God is allowing time for TB to bring forth fruit meet for repentance, and be willing to abide by the consequences of his action; this is my prayer and hope for him; he's a friend of mine, but we must all abide by God's word: NOBODY IS ABOVE GOD'S WORD-LUCIFER THOUGHT SO, AND HIS FATE IS DAMNABLE ETERNAL....

[Tlswift2009]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Don't feed the sharks. Numbers can be manipulated. Either way.

That's great, because the MORE that leave is not MERRIER: it's a travesty!!! TPC must survive; God is able, and wanting HIS church to survive!!!!