Laura and Mary of Little House on the Prairie books kept the Sabbath on Sunday, and a very trying day it was for them... if you've ever read the books... I don't know that the movies ever mention it. They walked to church because they couldn't hitch a horse. They ate cold leftovers, and had to sit and read their catechicism all day.
My grandmother to this day still will do no work on Sunday, such as laundry, cleaning the house etc. It is the Lord's day, and the only thing you need to do in her mind is go to church, and take a nap
We have been pondering the Sabbath keeping ourselves, and studying the scriptures for answers.
I had a question come to mind the other day, that I have not heard before mentioned on the topic of the Sabbath. Just thought I would bring it up here for discussion, since the subject is refreshed.
As a preface to my question... There are many natural laws noted throughout scripture. And there are spiritual laws that correspond to those natural laws.
For example, headship. In the natural, according to the Apostle Paul (many times in his writings) ... a wife is to be submitted to her husband, as her husband is submitted to Christ. This I would call a natural law. The spiritual application of this law is that we are all submitted to Christ as our head, each one of us being the bride of Christ.
Another example would be marriage. As a husband loves and respects his wife naturally, so does Christ love and cherish His bride, the church, spiritually.
My point being this. The 10 commandments is a natural law. It is law that is naturally binding to us. Even people who have never darkened a church door in their life know it is wrong to commit murder, steal or lie. The 10 commandments have been ingrained on our hearts naturally.
So what about the spiritual application? How do we apply the natural law of the ten commandments spiritually in our lives?
By loving the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind and spirit.
Could celebrating the Sabbath naturally by resting and regarding the seventh day holy, also be applied spiritually by celebrating Christ as the rest for ever more?
I don't know if what I am saying is as clear as mud... because I am still trying to put it together in my own mind.
But I am wondering... have we set aside or done away with the natural law of observing the Sabbath in order to celebrate the spiritual law which is more convenient?
In our Christian world today, the spiritual application of Christ being our Sabbath throws out the natural law that set it in place. Is that wrong?
So that is my question... has the natural law of keeping the Sabbath, as well as all the other 9 commandments, been set aside, in order to not have to deal with its inconveniences, and to just celebrate the "spiritual" Sabbath instead?
What if we set aside the headship law... with woman not being in submission to her husband... (well, in many homes it has been set aside...perhaps in our nation or the world as a whole). Yet it is a natural law that came into existence in the garden, along with a curse of childbearing that has not yet been removed for women. In many marriages, the law of submission has been set aside, yet women still suffer in childbearing, and that part of the curse has not changed.
My question then goes farther... So why would the submission part change? For if Christ removed the "submission" aspect, would he not also have removed the pain in childbearing aspect for women? .... obviously not. Read Genesis 3:16
So when there is a "natural" application of a law, and also a "spiritual" application of a law.... does the spiritual application trump and do away with the natural law? Or do they walk together hand in hand?
Just questions that I have.... Thoughts anyone?
Last edited by KeptByTheWord; 09-28-2012 at 10:28 PM.
Laura and Mary of Little House on the Prairie books kept the Sabbath on Sunday, and a very trying day it was for them... if you've ever read the books... I don't know that the movies ever mention it. They walked to church because they couldn't hitch a horse. They ate cold leftovers, and had to sit and read their catechicism all day.
My grandmother to this day still will do no work on Sunday, such as laundry, cleaning the house etc. It is the Lord's day, and the only thing you need to do in her mind is go to church, and take a nap
We have been pondering the Sabbath keeping ourselves, and studying the scriptures for answers.
I had a question come to mind the other day, that I have not heard before mentioned on the topic of the Sabbath. Just thought I would bring it up here for discussion, since the subject is refreshed.
As a preface to my question... There are many natural laws noted throughout scripture. And there are spiritual laws that correspond to those natural laws.
For example, headship. In the natural, according to the Apostle Paul (many times in his writings) ... a wife is to be submitted to her husband, as her husband is submitted to Christ. This I would call a natural law. The spiritual application of this law is that we are all submitted to Christ as our head, each one of us being the bride of Christ.
Another example would be marriage. As a husband loves and respects his wife naturally, so does Christ love and cherish His bride, the church, spiritually.
My point being this. The 10 commandments is a natural law. It is law that is naturally binding to us. Even people who have never darkened a church door in their life know it is wrong to commit murder, steal or lie. The 10 commandments have been ingrained on our hearts naturally.
So what about the spiritual application? How do we apply the natural law of the ten commandments spiritually in our lives?
By loving the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind and spirit.
Could celebrating the Sabbath naturally by resting and regarding the seventh day holy, also be applied spiritually by celebrating Christ as the rest for ever more?
I don't know if what I am saying is as clear as mud... because I am still trying to put it together in my own mind.
But I am wondering... have we set aside or done away with the natural law of observing the Sabbath in order to celebrate the spiritual law which is more convenient?
In our Christian world today, the spiritual application of Christ being our Sabbath throws out the natural law that set it in place. Is that wrong?
So that is my question... has the natural law of keeping the Sabbath, as well as all the other 9 commandments, been set aside, in order to not have to deal with its inconveniences, and to just celebrate the "spiritual" Sabbath instead?
What if we set aside the headship law... with woman not being in submission to her husband... (well, in many homes it has been set aside...perhaps in our nation or the world as a whole). Yet it is a natural law that came into existence in the garden, along with a curse of childbearing that has not yet been removed for women. In many marriages, the law of submission has been set aside, yet women still suffer in childbearing, and that part of the curse has not changed.
My question then goes farther... So why would the submission part change? For if Christ removed the "submission" aspect, would he not also have removed the pain in childbearing aspect for women? .... obviously not. Read Genesis 3:16
So when there is a "natural" application of a law, and also a "spiritual" application of a law.... does the spiritual application trump and do away with the natural law? Or do they walk together hand in hand?
Just questions that I have.... Thoughts anyone?
These were many of the questions we asked one another and sought the Lord about before deciding to honor the Sabbath. We also did a fair amount of historical research and to us it appeared that Rome, in it's effort to avoid all things Jewish, did indeed change the day of rest and worship from that which the Apostolic church kept.
I do however believe that when we make it a law or lose our delight in it, or try to make it salvational, we have then lost sight of it's intention and purpose.
That God provided a day for rest and worship, from creation, repeated in the commandments, written with His own finger, is good enough for me. It also fits well into a busy and fulfilled life. While always remembering that the Sabbath was created for man and not the other way around, we are not slaves to it but beneficiaries of it's blessings. I find this principle applies to holiness issues as well, pretty much.
Understanding that God's plans are for my good has softened me and made me able to see headship, modesty, frugality, giving, necessary rest, worship and a great many other things as gifts to me and not burdens.
I do not keep a day as the sabbath for various reasons.
It is a memorial of old creation, not the new to which I belong.
It is a shadow of the actual sabbath in God's Spirit. So, we essentially do keep it if we enjoin into the eternal sabbath of the Spirit that lasts more than 24 hours.
Jesus never repeated this law but did speak of Himself as the Rest.
The apostles only observed it in order to reach Jews, and not because they felt they had to observe it as required of them, personally by God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Amen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
The ten commandment Covenant has been replaced by Elohim. The New Covenant tho containing 9 of those commands does not contain the Sabbath command. If it did we would be keeping it.
Amen.
__________________
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
I meant to get back to this and never did. The article, while lengthy and complicated (to me ), basically says that no one can know when Sabbath was truly observed because ancient calenders have been lost, correct? Then it appears this is extrapolated into suggesting that if we don't have that information we can't know how Sabbath would best be observed now, which somehow becomes that it is not necessary or beneficial today. So it boiled down to lots of research or little importance to me personally.
For me it's easy. In my time and place Saturday is the last day of the week. Following God's example at creation of six days work and then rest... Saturday works best in our lives. However if Sunday or Tuesday works better for others on the planet, OK by me. The main point for us is that by God's own example at creation, and important enough to be included on His 'short list' (the Ten Commandments) is the idea that we need to set aside a time of rest and worship. All the rest may be important to someone, somewhere I'm sure but I don't really see it as something to debate as another standard but rather as a gift and a privilege offered by God... take it or leave it.
I am also a tiny bit concerned that our society now believes that a day of rest (and/or worship), any day... is just not necessary. We expect goods and services to be available 24/7/365 and sadly God is often lost in the shuffle. Many people I talk to that practice no religious observance state that they are just too busy. They use their ancestors traditional day of worship and rest (whether Saturday or Sunday) to get more done; more work, more shopping, etc. And the consequence is that God has an ever shrinking place in their consciousness and in our world as a whole. So the idea that we should worship God every day quickly gives way to putting God on the back burner every day. Many scholars now speak of the post-Christian era as if it is upon us.
For us, a day set aside for rest and worship is essential in a very busy life. We still live an agrarian lifestyle and with it comes daily responsibilities that can quickly consume all of one's time. Our planing a time of rest and worship involves many practical aspects that highlight the importance of finding God our center in what can be a hectic schedule. We cook ahead, we get as many of the livestock chores knocked out as possible so everyone has what they need. We pick the garden, we get housework and laundry done. It is quite motivating, this wrapping up things undone when one knows that no work will be done on Sabbath. Priorities are set around God and not the other way around.
Still following the example of Jesus we are not crazy about it. If an animals gives birth or is injured, if the cow has no calf and must be milked, if a friend goes to the hospital... we will do whatever is necessary, even on that day, always remembering that this day is for our good. It has been surprising though to see how God has honored our efforts and how many of our Sabbath days go uninterrupted and are peaceful in what can otherwise be a chaotic life.
I meant to get back to this and never did. The article, while lengthy and complicated (to me ), basically says that no one can know when Sabbath was truly observed because ancient calenders have been lost, correct? Then it appears this is extrapolated into suggesting that if we don't have that information we can't know how Sabbath would best be observed now, which somehow becomes that it is not necessary or beneficial today. So it boiled down to lots of research or little importance to me personally.
For me it's easy. In my time and place Saturday is the last day of the week. Following God's example at creation of six days work and then rest... Saturday works best in our lives. However if Sunday or Tuesday works better for others on the planet, OK by me. The main point for us is that by God's own example at creation, and important enough to be included on His 'short list' (the Ten Commandments) is the idea that we need to set aside a time of rest and worship. All the rest may be important to someone, somewhere I'm sure but I don't really see it as something to debate as another standard but rather as a gift and a privilege offered by God... take it or leave it.
I am also a tiny bit concerned that our society now believes that a day of rest (and/or worship), any day... is just not necessary. We expect goods and services to be available 24/7/365 and sadly God is often lost in the shuffle. Many people I talk to that practice no religious observance state that they are just too busy. They use their ancestors traditional day of worship and rest (whether Saturday or Sunday) to get more done; more work, more shopping, etc. And the consequence is that God has an ever shrinking place in their consciousness and in our world as a whole. So the idea that we should worship God every day quickly gives way to putting God on the back burner every day. Many scholars now speak of the post-Christian era as if it is upon us.
For us, a day set aside for rest and worship is essential in a very busy life. We still live an agrarian lifestyle and with it comes daily responsibilities that can quickly consume all of one's time. Our planing a time of rest and worship involves many practical aspects that highlight the importance of finding God our center in what can be a hectic schedule. We cook ahead, we get as many of the livestock chores knocked out as possible so everyone has what they need. We pick the garden, we get housework and laundry done. It is quite motivating, this wrapping up things undone when one knows that no work will be done on Sabbath. Priorities are set around God and not the other way around.
Still following the example of Jesus we are not crazy about it. If an animals gives birth or is injured, if the cow has no calf and must be milked, if a friend goes to the hospital... we will do whatever is necessary, even on that day, always remembering that this day is for our good. It has been surprising though to see how God has honored our efforts and how many of our Sabbath days go uninterrupted and are peaceful in what can otherwise be a chaotic life.
Good post.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
It's a good idea to set aside one day a week for rest and worship. It's an example set from Creation. Jesus tempered the idea with pragmatism and rebuffed the concept that people couldn't do anything at all--even good--on the Sabbath.
Hey, if God needs to rest, surely we do.
In a nutshell, using my poetic license.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
*AQuietPlace* 
), basically says that no one can know when Sabbath was truly observed because ancient calenders have been lost, correct? Then it appears this is extrapolated into suggesting that if we don't have that information we can't know how Sabbath would best be observed now, which somehow becomes that it is not necessary or beneficial today. So it boiled down to lots of research or little importance to me personally.
Hybrid Mode
