Receiving The Holy Spirit & Speaking In Tongues

[Johnson]

Originally Posted by covey

Now, does that contradict what I said?

You contradict yourself so much that it would be easier for you to cut and past anything that you have said that is not in contradiction to anything else you have said.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The foundation of all legalism found among Oneness Pentecostals is built on this perversion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

What is the foundation for the "legalism" of the trinitarian Conservative Holiness Movement? Or the Old Order Mennonites? Or the Amish? Or various sects of schismatic Mormons? Or various Baptist groups? Or of the Puritans? Or the Pilgrims? Or the Covenanters? Or Traditional Catholics? Or Slavic Orthodox? Or Old Calendarists? Or Hasidic Jews? Or...?

Or maybe you don't know what you are talking about, you just need some high falootin' rationalization of why you disagree with certain doctrines and the people who believe them...

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What is the foundation for the "legalism" of the trinitarian Conservative Holiness Movement? Or the Old Order Mennonites? Or the Amish? Or various sects of schismatic Mormons? Or various Baptist groups? Or of the Puritans? Or the Pilgrims? Or the Covenanters? Or Traditional Catholics? Or Slavic Orthodox? Or Old Calendarists? Or Hasidic Jews? Or...?

Or maybe you don't know what you are talking about, you just need some high falootin' rationalization of why you disagree with certain doctrines and the people who believe them...

High falootin...

I apologize for making you feel disrespected.

In fact, I have a lot of nerve to down talk the beliefs of others, incessantly. I am sure that my ways have grown old on others who hold dear some of what I used to hold dear.

I will change my ways, my posting patterns, or simply find fellowship with other Christians--- people who think a little more similar to me.

I will work on me.

[RonMurray]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The foundation of all legalism found among Oneness Pentecostals is built on this perversion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I have a question for you.
Why was Jesus Christ baptized?

It's not a perversion of the gospel. I went to God and asked Him if it eas true that everyone who receives the Holy Ghost will speak in tongues. And He answered by leading me to Isaiah 28:11 & 12 and opened my understanding of it, and showed me the connection between that and what Jesus said in Matthew 11:28, and made me to know that it's true, that everyone who receives the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues. So this is what God Himself teaches.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by RonMurray

It's not a perversion of the gospel. I went to God and asked Him if it eas true that everyone who receives the Holy Ghost will speak in tongues. And He answered by leading me to Isaiah 28:11 & 12 and opened my understanding of it, and showed me the connection between that and what Jesus said in Matthew 11:28, and made me to know that it's true, that everyone who receives the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues. So this is what God Himself teaches.

Why was John filled with the Holy Ghost, before Pentecost? How could that be without any record of him speaking in tongues?

On the Day of Pentecost, those who received the HG spoke in languages that people around could understand. Did you receive the HG in that same way? Did you speak in a language that was easily understood by others around you? If not, how then can you say you have truly received the same experience as they?

How do you explain this verse:
Mark 16:15-20
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

VS. 16 says he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned. Notice tongues is not mentioned there.

The signs that will follow them that believe are
-cast out devils
-speak with new tongues
- take up serpents
- drink any deadly thing
- lay hands on the sick.

Tongues are a sign, and not salvational. This is quite simply STATED in this passage.

Otherwise, in order for this verse to line up with the rest of this theology, you would also have to cast out devils, speak with new tongues, taken up serpents, drank any deadly thing, and lay hands on the sick in order to be saved.

But this verse does not say that.

Again, tongues are a sign, and are not salvational. I speak in tongues, and I know they are a powerful gift from the Lord. But I don't depend on my gift of tongues for salvation.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. Simple words from Jesus himself.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Again, tongues are a sign, and are not salvational. I speak in tongues, and I know they are a powerful gift from the Lord. But I don't depend on my gift of tongues for salvation.

Technically, they're evidence. And no one I know believes they're "salvational", merely that when one receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost for the first time, they will speak in tongues. To call them salvational, implies that speaking in tongues will save you. That's a fallacious argument.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Jito463

Technically, they're evidence. And no one I know believes they're "salvational", merely that when one receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost for the first time, they will speak in tongues. To call them salvational, implies that speaking in tongues will save you. That's a fallacious argument.

Well, let's look at that "fallacious argument". If you don't speak in tongues, are you saved or not?

[RonMurray]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Why was John filled with the Holy Ghost, before Pentecost? How could that be without any record of him speaking in tongues?

On the Day of Pentecost, those who received the HG spoke in languages that people around could understand. Did you receive the HG in that same way? Did you speak in a language that was easily understood by others around you? If not, how then can you say you have truly received the same experience as they?

How do you explain this verse:
Mark 16:15-20
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

VS. 16 says he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned. Notice tongues is not mentioned there.

The signs that will follow them that believe are
-cast out devils
-speak with new tongues
- take up serpents
- drink any deadly thing
- lay hands on the sick.

Tongues are a sign, and not salvational. This is quite simply STATED in this passage.

Otherwise, in order for this verse to line up with the rest of this theology, you would also have to cast out devils, speak with new tongues, taken up serpents, drank any deadly thing, and lay hands on the sick in order to be saved.

But this verse does not say that.

Again, tongues are a sign, and are not salvational. I speak in tongues, and I know they are a powerful gift from the Lord. But I don't depend on my gift of tongues for salvation.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. Simple words from Jesus himself.

If you have a hard time with it, go to God and ask Him about it like I did. God shiwed me in His word by His Spirit and opened my understanding of it. The word of God is spiritually discerned, and sometimes we don't see or understand something, but that doesn't mean it's not true, we just don't see it, and we need God to show us.

PS - If you read the article, you'll see I explained that tongues itself doesn't save us, being filled with the Holy Spirit does, and speaking in tongues is a result of being filled with the Holy Spirit.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by RonMurray

If you have a hard time with it, go to God and ask Him about it like I did. God shiwed me in His word by His Spirit and opened my understanding of it. The word of God is spiritually discerned, and sometimes we don't see or understand something, but that doesn't mean it's not true, we just don't see it, and we need God to show us.

PS - If you read the article, you'll see I explained that tongues itself doesn't save us, being filled with the Holy Spirit does, and speaking in tongues is a result of being filled with the Holy Spirit.

I appreciate your attitude about this. I do believe that we should pray and ask the Lord to open our hearts to the word of God, amen.

So in your p.s. are you saying that you don't believe that tongues are salvational?

In other words, if one doesn't speak in tongues are they saved, or not?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

On the Day of Pentecost, those who received the HG spoke in languages that people around could understand. Did you receive the HG in that same way? Did you speak in a language that was easily understood by others around you? If not, how then can you say you have truly received the same experience as they?

So you don't believe that tongues are the sign of the baptism with the Holy Ghost? Unless people understand what you are saying?