Incarnation OR Indwelling?

[Cindy]

I believe Jesus was both.

[HappyTown]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

I believe Jesus was both.

I believe I'm getting confused

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Esther

Didn't want to lose this discussion from another thread.

Posted by Mapleleaf

The Son was not a body in which God dwelt; the Son was God manifested in flesh, Emmanuel, God with us.


It is the difference between incarnation and indwelling.

In Christ, God did not indwell a man, God became a man.

The birth of Christ was a unique joining of absolute Deity with perfect humanity, and of this we say, great is the mystery of godliness."

Maple Leaf is correct 'the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.' The union of humanity and Deity. God and man becomng one yet distinct with BOTH natures.

[Apprehended]

Mapleleaf is right, but I wonder if it is understood.


The Word was made (manifest) flesh. The Word became fulfilled in the flesh. Word came into reality in the flesh. NOT, the Word of God MORPHED or transmutated into flesh. There is a huge difference.

What Word was made manifest, or made flesh? Start from the beginning and every promise of the coming of Christ that can be found from Gen. 3:15 and onward such as Isa. 9:6 and many others, came into reality by His birth.

God was made manifest (became known) in the flesh...his Word came to pass in the flesh of a man.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esther

Didn't want to lose this discussion from another thread.

Posted by Mapleleaf

The Son was not a body in which God dwelt; the Son was God manifested in flesh, Emmanuel, God with us.


It is the difference between incarnation and indwelling.

In Christ, God did not indwell a man, God became a man.

The birth of Christ was a unique joining of absolute Deity with perfect humanity, and of this we say, great is the mystery of godliness."

Both. God himself was incarnate in humanity, taking on a human nature in addition to His Divine. The Divine nature is Spirit and the Spirit was also indwelling in the humanity if you will. His Divine person can never be separated from His Divine nature.

[Tim Rutledge]

Originally Posted by Esther

Didn't want to lose this discussion from another thread.

Posted by Mapleleaf

The Son was not a body in which God dwelt; the Son was God manifested in flesh, Emmanuel, God with us.


It is the difference between incarnation and indwelling.

In Christ, God did not indwell a man, God became a man.

The birth of Christ was a unique joining of absolute Deity with perfect humanity, and of this we say, great is the mystery of godliness."

Jesus was the Holy Ghost (Father) in flesh. God incarnate.

[PMBrown]

Bro. Epley is right and Mapleleaf is wrong. God became a real human being. This is the great mystery and wonder of who Jesus is, and this is the root of the great power and depth of Who Jesus is. To miss this is to miss much of the Christian life.

Incidentally, part of the problem is that people put too much stock in trying to wrap their mind around God. Seriously, why should anyone think that we should be able to understand the nature of the God who made quantum physics and the galaxies. The gospel can be understood, but it is arrogance to assume that God can.

We only know of God what He has revealed to us through His Spirit and His Word. And He has NOT revealed everything to us.

Many people are simply not happy with that, and so spin their wheels.

[Shawn]

So the Father is obviously omnipresent and all knowing. The Divinty.

Then, the Humanity is always speaking of the Son.



So when Jesus is speaking to the Father.....that's the Human nature speaking to the Divinte nature. Not 2 persons(I'm not a trinitarian).


So?? is it safe to say, That Jesus Humanity was truly not omnipresent and'all knowing' and only had access to certain knoweldge as the Father(his divinie nature) gave it to him. For instance Nathaniel under the fig tree. Did Jesus Divinte nature reveal that to his Human nature...

.....But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.


did Jesus Divine nature know this but it was not revealed to his human nature.


Hopefully this doesn't seem silly....guess I'm thinking outloud......Just trying to reconcile a few things.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esther

Didn't want to lose this discussion from another thread.

Posted by Mapleleaf

The Son was not a body in which God dwelt; the Son was God manifested in flesh, Emmanuel, God with us.


It is the difference between incarnation and indwelling.

In Christ, God did not indwell a man, God became a man.

The birth of Christ was a unique joining of absolute Deity with perfect humanity, and of this we say, great is the mystery of godliness."

To be manifested in flesh does not mean one became flesh, period, with no more explanation than that. "Manifest" is simply making oneself known through something. God cannot become a man or else He ceases to be God. When we read the word was made flesh, the qualifier for that is the statement that says HE DWELT among us. DWELT means TABERNACLED.

John 1:14 KJV And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


G4637
σκηνόω
skēnoō
skay-no'-o
From G4636; to tent or encamp, that is, (figuratively) to occupy (as a mansion) or (specifically) to reside (as God did in the Tabernacle of old, a symbol fo protection and communion): - dwell.


John 2:19-21 KJV Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. (20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? (21) But he spake of the temple of his body.

God was not the tabernacle, but manifested in it by INDWELLING IT. So the WAY IN WHICH God was made flesh was by INDWELLING flesh. Even Jesus called His body the temple. Incarnation is not different than indwelling. Incarnate means ENFLESHED. That does not mean God became flesh.

INDWELLING does not mean the body was the Son. THE HUMAN BEING was the Son. And the Deity was also the Son. But deity and humanity are not the same thing. One can never become the other.

The HUMANITY was tempted -- not God. The HUMANITY was born -- not God. Mary IS NOT the mother of God. GOD did not die.
My view anyway.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by mfblume

To be manifested in flesh does not mean one became flesh, period, with no more explanation than that. "Manifest" is simply making oneself known through something. God cannot become a man or else He ceases to be God. When we read the word was made flesh, the qualifier for that is the statement that says HE DWELT among us. DWELT means TABERNACLED.

John 1:14 KJV And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


G4637
σκηνόω
skēnoō
skay-no'-o
From G4636; to tent or encamp, that is, (figuratively) to occupy (as a mansion) or (specifically) to reside (as God did in the Tabernacle of old, a symbol fo protection and communion): - dwell.


John 2:19-21 KJV Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. (20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? (21) But he spake of the temple of his body.

God was not the tabernacle, but manifested in it by INDWELLING IT. So the WAY IN WHICH God was made flesh was by INDWELLING flesh. Even Jesus called His body the temple. Incarnation is not different than indwelling. Incarnate means ENFLESHED. That does not mean God became flesh.

INDWELLING does not mean the body was the Son. THE HUMAN BEING was the Son. And the Deity was also the Son. But deity and humanity are not the same thing. One can never become the other.

The HUMANITY was tempted -- not God. The HUMANITY was born -- not God. Mary IS NOT the mother of God. GOD did not die.
My view anyway.

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14 NAS

Just wanted to put that version out there because it says, the Word became flesh.

Bro Blume, I'm a little confused about what you are saying. Are you saying something similar to what we read about ourselves in 2 Cor 5:1-11? In which Paul states that we live within the tents of our physical bodies. That is kind of like an indwelling.

But aren't you in effect saying that Jesus Christ is not God when you say that God did not die?