WHAAT!! Clarence Thomas Push 4 Probe Against OBAMA

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Esther

Why? If BO has a legit birth certificate the issue is settled, if he doesn't he is not eligible to be president.

The birth certificate issue has already been settled, with the State of Hawaii affirming that President elect Obama was born there.

He has produced a copy of a certificate and the State of Hawaii publicly confirmed that they have his original birth records that show his birth on American soil.

The people who are going after him are blinded by their politics and maybe hate as they now try to argue that since Obama's father was a citizen of the British Empire, Obama can't be an American citizen!!!


This is pure lunacy!!!



From the beginning, none of this stuff was legitimate!!!!

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Sam

Isn't that an over simplification?

Whether he has a legitimate right to be President or not he has already been elected.

It matters a great deal because if the Constitution doesn't matter; then nothing about being an American matters. NO RIGHT IS SECURE. Furthermore, Obama's deceit speaks volumes.

Please see the following response in response to the idea that 64 million votes ends the discussion....

[Note I edited the number of paragraphs for easier reading. LONG POST but worth reading for those that read long posts].

Posted by: hankrand // 20 hours ago // viewed 401 times
Cleveland, Ohio // embed media
Last updated: 20 hours ago
I came across a piece today by David Horowitz ( http://hnn.us/roundup/comments/57846.html) that, without blinking, lends more credence to the growing "So what" trend that has driven our country's demise in to complacency for decades. And I understand that Mr. Horowitz would not be considered a "ferocious" Obama supporter; still, however, his talk track suggests otherwise. This particular "So what", related to Barack Obama's potentially having defrauded his way in to power. Horowitz asks, "What difference does it make to the future of this country whether Obama was born on US soil? Advocates of this destructive campaign will argue that the Constitutional principle regarding the qualifications for President trumps all others. But how viable will our Constitution be if 5 Supreme Court justices should decide to void 64 million ballots?"

Here is my response....

A proponent of the reality that there is an outstanding question that exists relating to Barack Obama's natural born citizenship (not that I have an answer, but rather, simply, that no answer has been given), my personal opinion is that this has less to do with the merit of a particular Constitutional law...and more to do with the character and integrity of a man who may have gone to such great lengths to, knowingly, break it. And of far greater consequence to all constituents, in 2008 and beyond, in that course of action, our entire country (not just those who didn't vote for him) and our most coveted process of Democracy (our vote), were defrauded.

If he's found to be ineligible per the Constitution, proving he knowingly and willfully defrauded our people and process, it won't be the Justices who will have disenfranchised 64 million voters. It' will be Barack Obama. How many times are you prepared to claim "you fell down the stairs" for this man?

I was an initial supporter. I started seeing very real and very questionable issues raised about the nature of his past associations, and the laughable explanations he would give to dumb down credence...and I was sure it would hurt him in the press and among supporters.

But what did I see? The press and most supporters, too engrossed in their partisanship to care. In fact, the more reasonable questions came up about him...the harder the press and the 64 million that same press brainwashed, drove to the hoop for him. As I stood back watching this, again, as an initial supporter of his, even making phone calls on his behalf...I realized what I was seeing, was nothing short of WEIRD. Just, plain, weird.

And I thought this birth certificate issue (check that, "Certificate of Live Birth" issue...as opposed to "Certification of Live Birth") was cleared up a long time ago. I thought there was no way the DNC would have been capable of such a gross oversight.

I thought surely Barack Obama would go to whatever extraordinarily basic lengths necessary to debunk it. But reasonable, grounded, public requests went unanswered. Then the court cases came up, and nothing was done to quell the question....which despite wide-spread rumor by our press and his supporters, was not quelled with the "Certification" of Live Birth he posted on his site, or any of the other 4 half-truth refutations that were offered up to what has become an increasingly misinformed Nation. (See, "Small Price to Pay for Unity", also here at ireport).

"You're mincing words Hank. 'Certificate.' 'Certification.' What's the big deal?" Yes, I am mincing words. And I'm doing that, because I have room to. That's the neat thing about truth: when you have it, there is no room to toy with semantics or any other hypotheses. We still don't know the truth, and that's incredible...because it would be so easy for Barack Obama to give us.

But what finally landed me concerned that something is not right, was when Chiyome Fukino, Director of Health for Hawaii, released the statement about his birth. That statement actually did more harm than good (for all Obama-intensive purposes), and it only demonstrated further how moronic far too many public officials and people in the media and governing bodies, think Americans are.

No matter how many times the press dices the 4 sentence statement (see Jack Tapper's piece in which, rather than ply the misinformation himself, he decides to cite from another source), the statement still, in a pointed effort to respond to questions about his natural born status, failed to broach even the surface of the issue. (Also more clearly articulated in "Small Price to Pay for Unity".)

I digress. I just can't bring myself to touch any of this, without doing everything I can to, if nothing else, make sure those who still operate with independent thought, are afforded the opportunity to do so....specifically independently of what the press has become all-too-comfortable, quite literally, lying to us about.

Continued---

[Newman]

Anyway. Sure, America has it's slew of idiots. And sure, the aisle that questions Barack Obama's natural born and/or properly maintained citizenship statuses has it's smattering of some of those idiots. But an easily targeted and isolated contingent of whackjobs being on board, doesn't nullify the fact that the question is still outstanding.

I hear the same 5 refutations over, and over, and over. "He posted his birth certificate on his website", "Factcheck proved it", "The state of Hawaii released a statement clearing all this up", "There was a birth announcement in a Hawaiian newspaper", "Judges meritoriously threw it out as 'frivolous'"; and while each of those statements hold an element of truth, an "element of truth" isn't enough to earn credibility.

"Truth" earns credibility. And "truth" is objective. There is no debunking it. We should be able to move past this on to more subjective and productive lines of communication...with all the dissent we're accustomed to...netting, like competition, improvement. But here we are. And one man can answer this objective question. And sure, not everyone will get on board if he were to release the actual Certificate of Live Birth (as opposed to the factually less credible, more easily attained and more easily forged "Certification")...but many would get on board.

Coming off a platform of transparency, directly in to a promised pursuit for unity...why leave so many of us divided on what should be a simple and objectively debunked question? If the Certification is authentic, then it's more credible parent - the Certificate, exists. But rather than produce it, he has fought those requests so fiercely that he's allowed the same requests to land in court rooms...where he continues to fight them. Yes, that's right....he allowed that to happen.

Make no mistake about it. This is in court because of Barack Obama's decisions - not Phil Berg's, or Leo Donofrio's, or Alan Keyes'. Why would he do this? And rather than quell the reasonable, objective and easily answered outstanding question...he opts for non disclosure.

As I previously stated, production of Certificate of Live Birth is a very small price to pay for unity. And yet, here we are. And Barack Obama, and Barack Obama only, is responsible for that. I am certain of that beyond any reasonable doubt, because Barack Obama, and Barack Obama only, can quell it...with an actual Certificate of Live Birth, and he has watched requests transition from meritorious public requests - to court cases, and still refuses.

So as a first order of business, in a promised pursuit for unity, he leaves us divided, on what should be a very simple, very objective, very basic matter. Who among us can applaud that? "I do, Hank. Because you're all just whackjobs." That's all well and good if that's your opinion.

My brother said to me, "Yeah but if we pull him out, we're going to look corrupt to the rest of the world." I replied, "I'd rather look corrupt and not be it, than be corrupt and not look it." So goes my position on being called a "whackjob", for maintaining through nothing more than logic and fact, that there is a still outstanding question regarding Barack Obama's natural born and properly maintained citizenship statuses. I'd rather be called a whackjob and stand by truth, than submit to mistruths and be called sound.

I didn't hear any of the 5 standard press talking points in your piece, which leads me to believe the transition I anticipated is occurring. That is, virtually all of supporters (and I don't know if you were one prior to November 4th or not), will go from, "He didn't commit fraud. He is a natural born citizen", to "So what if he committed fraud. So what if he isn't a natural born citizen."

I've challenged others, staunch supporters in fact, as to whether or not they'd concede a gross misstep in character and judgement, and support his being held accountable for that, if he did commit this fraud. They've uniformly claimed they would. However should this matter get the legs it deserves, and he's found ineligible...let's just say I won't hold my breath for those supporters to stand by the principle they claim to now have. Your article, blog, whatever it is...demonstrates the first piece I've actually seen that goes out of it's way to say, "No. I wouldn't. Barack Obama can lie, cheat and steal all he wants. And if he gets held accountable for it, it's the fault of the Justices...because Barack Obama himself, is simply incapable of wrongdoing."

Running that red light you sit at, day after day, when no one is looking, is pretty harmless too. But you know it's wrong. This man, if not a natural born and properly maintained citizen of the United States, will have knowingly and willfully cheated our entire country, and more critical than that - our absolutely, inherently, unquestionably most coveted process of democracy - in what can only be articulated as a relentless pursuit for unapologetic, integrity-free, and division-inducing power.

www.ireport.com/DOC-158978

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The birth certificate issue has already been settled, with the State of Hawaii affirming that President elect Obama was born there.

He has produced a copy of a certificate and the State of Hawaii publicly confirmed that they have his original birth records that show his birth on American soil.

The people who are going after him are blinded by their politics and maybe hate as they now try to argue that since Obama's father was a citizen of the British Empire, Obama can't be an American citizen!!!


This is pure lunacy!!!


From the beginning, none of this stuff was legitimate!!!!

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but the facts need to be gotten straight.

1. The Birth certificate issue was NEVER settled.

2. The state of Hawaii did not affirm that Obama was born there. The exact statement made was short of saying that.

3. Someone put up a certification of birth on Obama's website which forensic experts have shown with great detail why it is obviously fraudulent.

4. Hawaii NEVER CLAIMED HE WAS BORN ON AMERICAN SOIL.

5. One of the lawsuits the Supreme Court is looking at doesn't care where Obama was born given that his website already ADMITTED to a dual British citizenship which their position argues is proof that Obama is not a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. They maintain that duel citizenship is opposite of Natural born citizenship because one might harbor divided loyalties.

~The founding fathers grandfathered themselves as exceptions to the rule since they were all British citizens initially~

[RevDWW]

President elect Obama has promised change, let's just hope it's not the Constitution that bears the brunt of it..........Now just show us the Birth Certificate and it will suffice.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

This is an interesting explanation of Obama's citizenship:

FactCheck.org

But the paper failed to note that the Kenyan Constitution prohibits dual citizenship for adults. Kenya recognizes dual citizenship for children, but Kenya's Constitution specifies that at age 21, Kenyan citizens who possesses citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship and swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.

But doesn't the US disallow anyone to have dual citizenship with any other country?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

But doesn't the US disallow anyone to have dual citizenship with any other country?

No.

American law does not require that immigrants renounce their citizenship of their original country.

I have a cousin who I am almost positive is a citizen of Senegal, but I know she is an American still.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Newman

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but the facts need to be gotten straight.

1. The Birth certificate issue was NEVER settled.

2. The state of Hawaii did not affirm that Obama was born there. The exact statement made was short of saying that.

3. Someone put up a certification of birth on Obama's website which forensic experts have shown with great detail why it is obviously fraudulent.

4. Hawaii NEVER CLAIMED HE WAS BORN ON AMERICAN SOIL.

5. One of the lawsuits the Supreme Court is looking at doesn't care where Obama was born given that his website already ADMITTED to a dual British citizenship which their position argues is proof that Obama is not a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. They maintain that duel citizenship is opposite of Natural born citizenship because one might harbor divided loyalties.

~The founding fathers grandfathered themselves as exceptions to the rule since they were all British citizens initially~

I appreciate the dialog.

Below is a quote from one of the folks who are still attacking President elect Obama:

"Don't be distracted by the birth certificate and Indonesia issues. They are irrelevant to Senator Obama's ineligibility to be President. Since Barack Obama's father was a Citizen of Kenya and therefore subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of Senator Obama's birth, then Senator Obama was a British Citizen 'at birth', just like the Framers of the Constitution, and therefore, even if he were to produce an original birth certificate proving he were born on US soil, he still wouldn't be eligible to be President.

The Framers of the Constitution, at the time of their birth, were also British Citizens and that's why the Framers declared that, while they were Citizens of the United States, they themselves were not "natural born Citizens".


His attackers are motivated out of partisan politics, and maybe more. BUt whatever their motivations, it isn't good.



Quote from TStew on another thread:

Got it? The argument is that even if he was born in the U.S., his daddy was an immigrant, so he can't be president. Donofrio in fact "concedes Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii."



So yeah, it is settled: President elect Obama was born on American soil.

Thus, he is an American.

[Jermyn Davidson]

More investigative accuracy concerning the hateful partisan accusations:





•"Hawaiian officials will not confirm" that Obama was born in their state, Schulz says.

Initially, Hawaiian officials said that privacy laws prevented them from releasing a copy or confirming that Obama's copy was authentic. But in late October as questions persisted, Hawaii's health director and head of vital statistics reviewed Obama's birth certificate in the department's vault and vouched for its authenticity.

•Schulz says that legal affidavits state Obama was born in Kenya.

The affidavits that Schulz refers to are filings by the Obama critics themselves in the court cases challenging Obama's citizenship.

•Obama's paternal grandmother is recorded on tape saying she attended Obama's birth in Kenya, Schulz says.

The group's Web site posted what it says is a transcript of a long-distance phone conversation in Swahili and English from late October between a questioner in the United States and Sarah Hussein Obama, in her Kenyan home. The translator said he was one of two interpreters conducting the interview in a crowded hut during a celebration, over a speaker phone that dropped the call three times. A copy of the recording was not provided by Schulz.

• Schulz says that "U.S. law in effect in 1961 [the year of Obama's birth] denied citizenship to any child born in Kenya if the father was Kenyan and the mother was not yet 19 years of age."

If a child is born in the United States—as Hawaiian officials state that Obama was—that child is a U.S. citizen regardless of his or her parents' nationalities. If born to an American parent outside the U.S., the law at the time would require the U.S. citizen parent to be at least 19, which Obama's mother was not. The provisions of this law were subsequently loosened and made retroactive for government employees serving abroad and their families. It appears that this would not apply to Obama's mother. The matter would seem to be academic: Hawaiian officials vouch for Obama's birth certificate.

•Schulz says that in 1965, Obama's mother relinquished whatever Kenyan or U.S. citizenship she and Obama had by marrying an Indonesian and becoming a naturalized Indonesian citizen.

U.S. law lists the specific acts and formal procedures necessary to relinquish U.S. nationality. The statute requires the acts be performed voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing one's nationality. In many instances, one must be 18 to renounce one's citizenship. Obama moved to Indonesia in 1968 and moved back to Hawaii while still in grade school. There is no indication that Obama renounced his U.S. citizenship.

Schulz supports his argument with a reproduced Indonesian school document that states Obama's citizenship at that time as "Indonesian."

But the same document also lists Obama's birthplace as " Honolulu, Hawaii."




Regardless, this whole thing is stupid and so obviously politically motivated!!!
__________________

[Jermyn Davidson]

Given the clear statement of the 14th Amendment, “All persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States”, it would be STUPID AND PARTISAN to argue President elect Obama is NOT an American citizen.