IMPACT 09 Mississippi

[GrowingPains]

[QUOTE=staysharp;778718]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

what part of...you draw near with your lips, but your heart is far...do you not understand?

You can interpret this two ways:

1) God doesn't like it when we "draw near to Him with our lips"

or

2) God likes it when we "draw near to Him with our lips" but not when they don't mean or are really hypocritical, with a heart so distant of him, and lacking true affection for Him.


I would assure you that He inhabits the praises of His people. Paul and Silas knew that!

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

Dancing is a part of Jewish culture for a reason. It was a huge part of the Psalms. Even the man at the gate Beautiful reacted with praise. May it never die.

.

I don't think Jewish dancing was wild and uncontrolled, though. I believe in exuberant worship, but I think we need a balance. Sometimes things simply do get out of hand. When people are getting hurt, or doing goofy things like doing cartwheels across the crowded front of the church, I don't think God is glorified. The Bible does say to do things decently and in order.

I also think that way too much emphasis is placed on "shouting". We've had "good church" if we've had a shoutdown. There can also be a mindset that people who aren't wild shouters aren't spiritual.

I've also known churches where shouting was "the thing", but a deeper walk with God was not emphasized. When a preacher would start teaching strong meat, their eyes would glaze over.

I honestly believe strong, true, deep walks with God are in more danger of disappearing, than a loss of shouting.

It's important to maintain balance.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I don't think Jewish dancing was wild and uncontrolled, though. I believe in exuberant worship, but I think we need a balance. Sometimes things simply do get out of hand. When people are getting hurt, or doing goofy things like doing cartwheels across the crowded front of the church, I don't think God is glorified. The Bible does say to do things decently and in order.

I also think that way too much emphasis is placed on "shouting". We've had "good church" if we've had a shoutdown. There can also be a mindset that people who aren't wild shouters aren't spiritual.

I've also known churches where shouting was "the thing", but a deeper walk with God was not emphasized. When a preacher would start teaching strong meat, their eyes would glaze over.

I honestly believe strong, true, deep walks with God are in more danger of disappearing, than a loss of shouting.

It's important to maintain balance.

You certainly do not betray your username

Not my kind of church. There is a way to shout and have order. We do it every Sunday. Mikel thought David was out of order too. Dignity is for the proud. The balance weigns heavily toward praise, and it's dozens of words that represent what praise means. I agree for balance, but sounds like many want to cease what we call "crazy Pentcostal worship." I love it. God loves it. Our kids love it. Our worship services are a party, not a funeral home. Don't mind if not everyone wants to shout it out, that's their business. I love it though.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

You certainly do not betray your username

Not my kind of church. There is a way to shout and have order. We do it every Sunday. Mikel thought David was out of order too. Dignity is for the proud. The balance weigns heavily toward praise, and it's dozens of words that represent what praise means. I agree for balance, but sounds like many want to cease what we call "crazy Pentcostal worship." I love it. God loves it. Our kids love it. Our worship services are a party, not a funeral home. Don't mind if not everyone wants to shout it out, that's their business. I love it though.

I didn't say I was against shouting. I said I was against uncontrolled, goofy stuff. And focusing so much on shouting that the church is out of balance.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I didn't say I was against shouting. I said I was against uncontrolled, goofy stuff. And focusing so much on shouting that the church is out of balance.

Out of balance -- yes. That's the job of the worship pastor.

Uncontrolled and goofy. Guess I can't judge your words without understanding them. I like "losing control" every now and then. I'm usually a control freak, until it comes to God. I throw my pride away and have a party with Jesus.

Sorry, I truly do respect your opinion for worship to be more "laid back." That's probably another reason why there are so many churches. I would never purposefully choose a church where this is the case. Many of our church services even have a different feel. Some more interactive, some more deep/intimate and others more energetic, but we get it all.

[*AQuietPlace*]

I think you are misunderstanding me. My fault, I'm sure. Our church had a shout down last night.

I have seen services where people ran their head through the wall, blew a loud air horn, someone busted their head open and had blood running everywhere, whistled loud shrill whistles, dove into the baptistry.... that's what I mean by goofy.

What I mean by out of balance is when shouting means we've "had church". And not shouting means we haven't "had church".

eta: Just to clarify - I've seen most of the goofy stuff at campmeetings, not my own church.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I think you are misunderstanding me. My fault, I'm sure. Our church had a shout down last night.

I have seen services where people ran their head through the wall, blew a loud air horn, someone busted their head open and had blood running everywhere, whistled loud shrill whistles, dove into the baptistry.... that's what I mean by goofy.

What I mean by out of balance is when shouting means we've "had church". And not shouting means we haven't "had church".

eta: Just to clarify - I've seen most of the goofy stuff at campmeetings, not my own church.

I certainly did misunderstand you then. I'm sorry.

Our church has been known to do some "goofy" stuff on occassion. Certainly those things listed above (examples) are quite extreme and obvious!

[CC1]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

I also enjoyed what I heard.
I have no intent to see a decrease in celebration at our churches. You can go to your island looking for scripture and verse for every nuance of celebration all you want... what a miserable life.

For the record, there is more scripture for Pentecostal worship than for almost anything else in scripture. Shouting, dancing, clapping, leaping, rejoicing, spinning... you name it.

I challenge you to give New Testament examples of scripture dealing with shouting, dancing, clapping, leaping, and spinning. There is only scripture for one thing you mention and that is rejoicing (which one can do without any of the other non biblical things you listed).

[Kim Komando]

Worship is a lifestyle and is about the expression of the Spirit of Christ in us. In my opinion, it should reflect our normative expressions of Christ in our daily mundane lives.

Yes, there are emotions attached to those expressions that are normal. The question that I have is - as the temple of the Living God, the anti-type of the OT Tabernacle and its liturgy and worship, are we consistent in our expression of Christ in us when we go to a church meeting? Just as all times in our daily lives? Shouldn't our worship express Christ with the balance, the normalcy, and wide range of emotions we experience as believers daily?

A self inventory of those Spirit-filled expressions would tell me if I am mostly crying, shouting, running, dancing, meditating, singing, etc?

If we are high -energy and amped up at church then shouldn't we be consistent and in temperance be that high-energy at school, the workplace, Chucky Cheese's?

I think if you spin and twirl at a church meeting, you should have no problems doing so if the Spirit directs you in the mall.

I am the Church, that's bible. Therefore, I don't go to a church meeting to display my spirituality, by expressing my worship towards Christ at an abnormal high frequency that is not consistent to my worship of Him the other days of the week.

That would border, in my opinion, to hypocrisy.

Are there times we rejoice and have outbursts. Of course. But creating a culture that only values these high intensity moments as an expression of communion, spirituality and worship of Christ may not be consistent with the working of God's Spirit in His Church throughout the day to day, moment by moment, life of the believer.

I think it can even lead to frustrated believers who are led to believe, rightly or wrongly, that unless they are slain in the Spirit or dancing, God's Spirit is not actively working in them or they do not have the joy of their salvation.

I have experienced this in my own life.

If part of the fruit of the Spirit is to be temperate and we only are exuberant, "or get our praise on", by running the aisles, diving into baptisteries, etc. at the sound of our favorite "jungle" beat then this can be viewed to an outsider who knows you and knows nothing of our experience as either

(a) an anomaly of celebration and rejoicing,
(b) an emotional and carnal expression of conditioning,
(c) a pressure-driven response by the values and dynamics of the group or

(d) not genuine and/or consistent with our normal conduct that should reflect our worship
(e) simply a form of liturgical worship typical to a denominational experience

We should not quench or try to force the Spirit of God. And often, what I have seen the moder Old-time Pentecostal setting (oxymoron) is that we often mistake our fervor and zeal for true and powerful moves of the Holy Ghost in our past experiences to necessarily be carbon-copied and replicated in all of our services - and especially our big rallies and meetings.

This often leads to worship leaders becoming cheer leaders and praise bands learning licks to get things "fired up". How many times are those who are sitting, reflecting, watching the move of God's Spirit, being still or being prayerful told that if they are not feeling what the man with mic is feeling something's wrong with them? Really?

God's Spirit is limited to what you are personally feeling?

Is this temperance? I don't know. I just worry that this can often become about our Pentecostal identity and experience and it is no longer about Him.

When the music fades and all is stripped away and I simply come
Longing just to bring something that’s of worth that will bless Your heart
I’ll bring You more than a song for a song in itself is not what You have required
You search much deeper within through the way things appear
You’re looking into my heart

I’m coming back to the heart of worship and it’s all about You,
it’s all about You, Jesus
I’m sorry, Lord, for the things I’ve made it when it’s all about You,
it’s all about You, Jesus

King of endless worth, no one could express how much You deserve
Though I’m weak and I’m poor all I have is Yours, every single breath
I’ll bring You more than a song for a song in itself is not what You have required
You search much deeper within through the way things appear
You’re looking into my heart

I’m coming back to the heart of worship and it’s all about You,
it’s all about You, Jesus
I’m sorry, Lord, for the things I’ve made it when it’s all about You,
it’s all about You, Jesus
I’m coming back to the heart of worship and it’s all about You,
it’s all about You, Jesus
I’m sorry, Lord, for the things I’ve made it when it’s all about You,
it’s all about You, Jesus
When it’s all about You, it’s all about You, Jesus

[POWERUP]

GP,

I think Aquietplace has said what I was trying to say. I love to Praise!!!! I have been in the Music Ministry my whole life.

But sometimes you have to find some balance.

I believe Praise and worship will help break some strongholds. But once again, it is going to have to go deeper than the Jericho March and blowing the Rams Horn!!!!!

GP I love your comments and Post. I guess what I am trying to say is............... Don't stop Worshiping.

But don't let that be what makes you. We have got to have some strong meat for this spiritual diet we are on.

And for what I said about the 50/50. You misunderstood me. I just wish I would have ministered to a lot deeper need.

Shout all you want. But when your kid comes home and says......... Mom, dad......I'm Gay!

Or, I have been on Crystal meth for 3 Months. What will we say??

Please don't say......... Oh, just shout it out!!!

Trust me. This can happen. It happened to some friends of my familys Kids.

There is somethings you just don't shout out.

GP keep Dancing. Just don't forget balance.

Have a Blessed Day!!!!